Joe Rogan Experience #1393 - James Wilks & Chris Kresser - The Game Changers Debate

  • Published on Dec 5, 2019
  • James Wilks is a retired mixed martial artist. He was the winner of Spike TV's The Ultimate Fighter: United States vs. United Kingdom. He is also a producer of the documentary "The Game Changers" on Netflix. Chris Kresser, M.S., L.Ac is a globally recognized leader in the fields of ancestral health, Paleo nutrition, and functional and integrative medicine. Link to notes from this podcast by Chris Kresser:

Comments • 57 660

  • Adam Jakubowski
    Adam Jakubowski Hour ago

    I am vegetarian. I am completely stunned by how James Wilks is. He is a complete asshole. Honestly, listening the first hour of this makes me want to eat meat, no matter who is right in this argument. All I can say is that not all vegetarians are assholes :P.

  • Just clicking buttons

    Lentils and peanutbutter, but what else? Sure soy and seitan, but what else compared to lentils? Go to beans, 347kcals per 100g. You do have more leaner options with animal products, than with vegan products. Still eating mostly vegetarian/vegan during my week. Just eat a healthy balanced diet, we all would have less problems and those two wouldn't have to argue for 3.5 hours like little childs.

  • Bonepuff
    Bonepuff Hour ago

    Jeeeessuuuuus. How unlikeable can a person be? James seems to be a douche and he sure likes to hear himself talk. And the only thing James seems to be focusing on is to prove how Chris is wrong instead of arguing the topic. To be as informed as James is, he sure seems incompetent.

  • Big Ups Nuff Respect
    Big Ups Nuff Respect 4 hours ago

    Hold these L’s with pride Joe.....”Joe looks old for his age”

  • Big Ups Nuff Respect
    Big Ups Nuff Respect 4 hours ago

    Chris is worthless.....meat is not good for you...

  • Thomasz Yesensky
    Thomasz Yesensky 4 hours ago

    Joe is a great mediator

  • P M
    P M 6 hours ago

    Sooo eat your veggies...... and your healthy meats. Like Chris has been saying all along lol

  • Joffery Lannister-Baratheon

    This bald-headed dude is an idiot. He should run for president he's so full of shit.

  • Xabier Marshall Baquedano

    So... James comes in and criticises the world for trusting industry funded, cherry picked research, then tells us to go on his website and look at the mass of evidence collected by his team of scientists who are paid to promote a plant based diet... If you then read the papers they cite you realise that they cherry pick findings from those articles. You could debunk most of the game changers documentary purely on the literature it claims support from!

  • Frank Redmond
    Frank Redmond 10 hours ago

    Chris got absolutely bodied, & rightfully so. 😂

  • Martins Flatearther
    Martins Flatearther 11 hours ago


  • jmoney262
    jmoney262 13 hours ago

    James “let me finish” Wilks

  • Ryan Shordee
    Ryan Shordee 15 hours ago

    Bald guy is worse than a women

  • Nicholas Barszcz
    Nicholas Barszcz 19 hours ago

    Smh..So much wrong about this... Love when people think they know how to interpret primary literature just because they read beyond the abstract...

  • Leon M.
    Leon M. 20 hours ago

    Really appreciate the work James put in

  • Joe Heiler
    Joe Heiler 20 hours ago

    This was three guys who have zero grasp of basic statistics arguing in circles for 4 hours about basic statistics. Still better than anything else on the internet

  • RickyHairdo
    RickyHairdo 20 hours ago

    Joe “ ever seen a chicken f*#k up a mouse “ Rogan

  • Lino Buckingham
    Lino Buckingham 21 hour ago +1

    spicy, pretty cool debate, I think James needs to chill a bit more and not interrupt as much, still going to go with chris's view about eating good quality meat and plants.

  • Zack Lynch
    Zack Lynch 22 hours ago

    Did anyone manage to listen to this for longer than 10 minutes? James is absolutely unbareble, disrespectful in dialogue, and has no patience to actually have a conversation.

  • Jay hyler
    Jay hyler 22 hours ago

    man! this Vegan got super triggered super quick!!!

  • Androth
    Androth 23 hours ago

    looking at these two, the vegan looks energetic and quick witted while the meat eater looks tired and defeated. hmm.

  • enniemeanieminnie
    enniemeanieminnie 23 hours ago +1

    This was really hard to listen to. *after 12 hours of only him talking* “Hold on I’m not done yet”... he’s never done. Even if he had valid points, the way he conducts himself makes invalid. Also where are the scientist? Nutritionalist? Get them in and Gretas out of here.
    JOE aka mom

    • fernando Robledo
      fernando Robledo 9 hours ago

      He wanted to bring them in. I guess Joe didn't think that would be fair

  • Lo Lo
    Lo Lo 23 hours ago

    The argument shouldn’t be vegan against omnivore. If you’re planning correctly I don’t see the problem with either, it’s that most people don’t plan and are poorly educated. The argument should be against processed foods and sugar and biased studies. You are not going to turn vegans into omnivores and visa versa. Those are beliefs like religion.

  • Chaos acolyte
    Chaos acolyte Day ago


  • malackfortar
    malackfortar Day ago

    hahaha, google trend: forest plot. You're welcome!

  • Jorge B
    Jorge B Day ago

    When you realize your listening to a fighter have an argument with an acupuncturist and the host is a pothead about what I should eat 🤔

  • TheHitchHiker
    TheHitchHiker Day ago +1

    Ten minutes in and im already tired, they aren't even arguing at the same level, or listening to what the other one is actually arguing.

  • banditbanger13
    banditbanger13 Day ago

    I generally like Joe but this podcast reminds me of the one where Shermer was on - he is letting one of the participants agressively interrupt the other and repeat the same things over and over again to make it look like they are right. James is clearly a bully with an agenda and an overall bias. Shame on you Joe. On James also - this is no way to argue. If anyone is interested, here is a well thouht out cririque:

  • Lopata991
    Lopata991 Day ago

    Did you see what Chris just did there? :D

  • driedtoast12
    driedtoast12 Day ago

    Joe and Chris were correct. James argument would have made sense had he said "87 % of studies don't find dairy to be PROTECTIVE against cancer". I totally agree with Joe and Chris that "84% of studies don't show dairy to cause cancer". Also, a negative study is useful, but James plays down the 71% of negative studies as if they are not important.

  • driedtoast12
    driedtoast12 Day ago

    This is all good food for thought, but I think we have to take it with a grain of salt

  • buz cheva
    buz cheva Day ago

    I started on a vegan diet and got laid within 3 hours.....just saying

  • husmenusta
    husmenusta Day ago

    Past 1 hour mark, still couldn't answer one question? Why is meat bad for you? Just, dogging evading changing subjects.

  • michael algie
    michael algie Day ago

    This show was a great example why people who are NOT "proper experts" shouldn't debate on a public platform. To James credit he did admit that, but i found his conversation style too "aggressive" (which is understandable because he was defending himself but still irritating) he put himself in the public eye so if he wants to come across more tolerable to his critics, which wouldn't shut people off when he starts speaking, he should take notes from guys like Peterson, Weinstein and Harris. I still don't think the "truth" is clear except don't eat Mcd's and do some exercise BOOM. And I'm in the Rogan Diet lifestyle except my Meat is better : )

  • RuelMP
    RuelMP Day ago +2

    lmao Chris and Joe just hearing what they want to hear. smh. Chris had the audacity to mention confirmation bias 4 podcasts ago.

  • Dylan James
    Dylan James Day ago

    Where do you think chickens get their B12 from?!?!

  • Scott Henning
    Scott Henning Day ago

    Joe failed this one.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    "A study published by Stanford": as if it is therefore true. Lots of things are published by Stanford. Many disagree.
    Wilks' claim that the rest is just "old science" and this one study (done where, by whom, and exactly how?) supersedes prior studies somehow is absolutely bogus.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    What a train wreck.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    3:35:40: "He's unable to read a single study and understand it" (Wilks).
    Total and absolute nonsense and dishonesty.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    At around 3hrs 35min Wilks completely dodges excellent points by Kresser and fails miserably, after his bogus point about forest plots (AKA blobbograms). Kresser can read the studies just fine. It's Wilks who can't get it straight because of his preconceptions and biases. He's just out to support his biases.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    The essential amino acid profile quality was never adequately addressed. Wilks did a great job of ignoring critical points here, along with evidence against his claim that plant proteins are almost as digestible when raw and probably more digestible when cooked, relative to animal proteins. Very poor analysis on his part.

  • HubbzZ
    HubbzZ Day ago +1

    I know it seems like James was nitpicking a lot of stuff here but i think the point he was trying to make is that you cannot just make claims, or try to claim someone else is wrong off the top of your fucking head. The slippery slope Joe has been going down for a while now is bringing guests on who make claims or denounce other people's claims without a shred of real, scientific evidence. Had we not seen this debate and you only watched Chris Kresser's previous episode, you would be fooled into thinking he is an expert (which he isn't) and that James and his documentary are completely false simply because he says they are despite all scientific evidence used to make the movie. Kresser clearly came into this debate thinking the podcast was going to be similar to his first podcast with Joe, assuming it would be a casual conversation where he can say whatever the fuck he wants without anyone fact checking him. James was clearly pissed off that his well researched, science backed documentary was called into question by an acupuncturist who has no business making dietary suggestions to anyone. He came in with facts, slides and studies to prove his point and blew his ass out of the water. Moral of the story: don't talk out of your ass and don't believe everything someone says just because Joe Rogan doesn't call people out who agree with him. Don't take things at face value and do your fucking research. One of these guys had science on his side, and the other had opinions... We all just witnessed which one wins that battle every time.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago +3

    "I purposely didn't include those studies..." (Wilks): a classic.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago +1

    Wilks advocates looking at the "totality of the evidence." Then he proceeds to ignore the many studies that do not support his biases or run counter to his biases. That is hypocritical and dishonest.
    Then he keeps dodging the counterevidemce with appeals to supposed consensus. Again, quite dishonest.
    And the presumption that he has the "totality" of the evidence is also dishonest.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    Supplements are not necessarily "the best way to get B12” (Wilks). Shellfish and organic free range dairy are among the alternatives that work just fine.
    His bias against dairy and shellfish is obvious.

    ROBB'S VLOGS Day ago

    This is why Joe is so loved. It is his authenticity and open minded approach to learning without prematurely committing to ideas that do not have a solid scientific foundation or factual evidence. It’s refreshing and healthy for any one interested in learning the truth. I’m a meat eater but I will definitely make some adjustments as far as quality goes and including much more vegetables. Great debate, James Hulk smashed that one.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    See The Vegan Society's information on B12 to understand the fallaciousness of the ideas Wilks is pushing.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    Wilks was stunningly unscientific and inaccurate on the subject of B12.
    Why does he even pretend to know this material?

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    Wilks was outright dishonest when he said he was just wondering. Rogan caught him cold. (See shortly after 55 minutes in.)
    Wilks did this sort of thing a lot. Not an honest or friendly guy.
    He has totally turned me off to his film and his agenda.

  • Nick Rangel
    Nick Rangel Day ago +1

    James is more interested in winning the argument than knowing the truth.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    Wilks was very dense about the risk of cancer issue, and the 84% figure. He repeatedly showed himself unable to comprehend a simple, clear, logical point.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    A mark of a propagandist: omitting or suppressing evidence that is counter to his or her own agendas. Wilks has that in spades.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    You can tell Wilks is not a scientist: he keeps applealing to "consensus." That's not the way real science operates.
    And his claims of consensus are often simply false, and ignore substantial disagreement.

    • Balance
      Balance Day ago

      You should debate him yourself. It's easy trying to sound smart and write critique down here in the comments. Chris had this coming after his failure of a debunk on the show earlier. Couldn't even get his facts straight. Embarassing really.

  • Vive Viveka
    Vive Viveka Day ago

    They are not all saying that vegetarian and vegan diets are healthful for all life stages, as Wilks claims they are. Nor are they saying these diets are healthful or appropriate for all people.

  • Rick Moradian
    Rick Moradian Day ago

    The Skype comes office such a whiner of hard even listen to it

  • Ian Tang PREC
    Ian Tang PREC Day ago

    “I took a masters level nutrition class”...What’s the definition of “masters-level”? I took an East Asian history class once, I don’t claim to know more than experts. The arrogance of this Chris guy is incredible. Just be quiet and know you fucked up....

  • Matthew Sebastian

    he said 1.2, but jaime so eager to please said that he said 1.6 , wtf

  • Ent structor
    Ent structor Day ago +3

    how can they both not get what James is explaining??? Its soo unsatisfying

  • Free Man
    Free Man Day ago +1

    James did a good job defending his film. I agree with him 100%. I will still eat meat but not as much.