Chernobyl Doctor Fact Checks the HBO Series | Vanity Fair
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- Published on Sep 18, 2019
- Ukrainian medical responder and radiation expert Alla Shapiro reviews the validity of the HBO series "Chernobyl." Alla shares some real-life on-site experiences to explain whether clips from the series are true to what actually happened on April 26th, 1986 and the days that followed.
Dr. Shapiro received a Medical degree and a PhD degree in Kiev, Ukraine where she was trained in pediatric hematology. After Chernobyl she was one of the first medical responders sent to the most radiation contaminated areas, and headed the field team surveying the medical effects on children in the Chernobyl vicinity.
In 1989, Dr. Shapiro and her family became stateless refugees, spending 6 months in refugee camps in Italy, before immigrating to the U.S. She completed a residency in pediatrics at Georgetown University Hospital and a fellowship in pediatric oncology at the National Institute of Health. Shortly after 9/11, she became a Medical Officer at the Counter-Terrorism and Emergency Coordination Staff at the US Food and Drug Administration and evaluated drugs that treat people who have been exposed to harmful levels of radiation.
Dr. Shapiro is currently completing a book manuscript entitled Extraordinary Journey of the Stateless: From the Shadows of Chernobyl to the Lights of Washington.
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Chernobyl Doctor Fact Checks the HBO Series | Vanity Fair 
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Sounds like she's exactly the person they should have consulted before and during the making of the series.
I agree, although she made a tiny mistake saying that "Radiation would not make you bleed unless you get Acute Radiation Syndrome", and that is right. The man doesn't bleed because of the radiation in the air, but instead because the door got damaged and some debris might've cut him. It's a very dark scene, however you can see the door needed way too much force to be able to move, and it's edges seem a bit sharp as well.
@Wilbur Jenkins Yeah the production actually stated this, they were depicting things in the moment, they knew things perhaps not to be the case..
dont you think t hey HAD these experts? but BETTER experts than her?
They did, but for the sake of tv and rating, they had to "water it down". Because the real situation that occurred with the firemen was WAY worse.
My thoughts exactly!!
I like how she says her sources too. She's so knowledgeable and I wish her good health.
@Joey I think, what she actually meant by "impossible" is the statement that Ulyana makes: "The mother would have died, but the baby absorbed it instead." Is false. There is no way for a fetus to direct radiation to itself. This means she would be correct in her statement. I simply think it's an issue of English not being her first language, most likely. Obviously, everything can absorb radiation, but the show claims that the fetus protected Lyudmilla by absorbing it instead.
Not a doctor or anything, just a radiation nerd.
@Fred R Do they look like that? The bodies?
@Joey
Correct, the foetus can absorb the radiation, there's a Russian midwife taking about how they dealt with over 36 pregnant women in the first 24 hrs and all had unborn babes with defects or where dead.
@Joey "a lot of the things she said are simply untrue" and then you name 1 thing that she said that she wasn't entirely wrong about either. It is basically impossible for a fetus to absorb the radiation. Nothing she said was wrong
I was born in Minsk, Belarus. I often ask my mother about the incident and the things that followed. She does her best to control her anger and frustration. Those who lived and were affected by the disaster in my family, refuse to watch this show as it brings up too many terrible memories. People fail to realize that the only way to describe how the Soviet government handled itself during and for the most part, after the disaster is pure evil.
what do you think about belarus attacking ukraine with russia today?
I do not think this is connected to the communist system. Do you know what happen in Flint, Michigan. There are examples like this all over the world - companies or governments. But communist governments were not sustainable, as we have all witnessed.
I feel like the series was trying to be more emotional than accurate. So that we the viewer can understand just how dangerous and how much radiation and all those fancy studies truly are.
@Mark
Perceiving it as anti-nuclear propaganda is your conception.
Uh, for some odd reason, someone further up in the replies said that the show 'never mentioned that the three guys who went through the flooded cellars to start a water pump survived and lived long after the incident (two still alive today)'.
Uh.
Yes, they did.
Literally, the epilogue of the miniseries was detailing the aftermath of the people's lives following the Chernobyl disaster (including explicitly stating that they had fabricated an entire character to act as a vessel for the people who acted as researchers). The part they put in parantheses is almost word-for-word what the creators put in the final prologue to say the workers survived.
@Mark they gave a very broad number of the amount of deaths. They gave the minimum recorded to the maximum and said thst it was estimated. They didn't automatically say the inflated death count as fact. They didn't lie they just didn't have an exact number and nobody does.
Of course it"s more emotional and over colorized. It"s a show to gather as much people, make hype around it and make money. Not a documentary show about what actually happened
@Harish yeah but i didnt know about the podcast
A little bit after Chernobyl happened, there was a very short note about the accident in a newspaper. It sounded very ordinary and neutral, but my Grandpa (in Ufa, Russia) became very worried when he read it. He was telling everyone around, that it's very-very bad, but people didn't seem to believe or worry. Only days/weeks/months after the awful reality came out.
@Guy Dunn yes. And?
"I was one of the first Chernobyl responders after the nuclear accident" INSTANT RESPECT!!
@Jozef Aurel Kralik My God Maf Respect
but then she also said she didn't tell the population that something is wrong
When they had No clue what they were getting into why wouldn't they..... ✌
@D N he was quoting her
@Christopher N no
This is the problem with series or films "based on real events". People take them as actual documentaries.
@FrostDK98 They consulted journalists , few locals and anti-nuclear activists , they didn't even read the UN reports , they didn't consult nuclear scientists , they didn't even bother to consult doctors , this was a good drama but a bad documentary
@Raizzor18 Clearly the risk was them containing materials which are giving off radiation. Maybe some graphite particles have stuck to their skin as they were exposed to it? Or what about the radioactive source particles that they are constantly breathing like dust which accumulates in their lungs? I guess that stops giving gamma rays or stops leaving as you breathe out just because you changed clothes or took a shower? It's really not hard to believe that someone who has been exposed to an exposed core potentially contains some radioactive sources that they too start emitting when all the dust and particles are flying around. There is a difference between being exposed to radiation and being exposed to a radioactive source. Being exposed to a radioactive source means you start emitting radiation yourself as the source is present in you. This is common stuff, and this makes me believe that this Dr has not actually watched a series, especially because she compares a fireman who is first hand exposed to a core to kids who were not. And the thing she said about radiation being not so severe also makes no sense, the gamma radiation will be that severe for someone who literally swam in highly radioactive water with no protection. Her comparison with her friends who tended to regular people with mild radiation burns, not the actual workers with the highest exposure also makes no sense.
People here are stupid, they take this "experts" words as gospel even though she hasn't watched the series, only these clips, but think the multiple other experts who wrote the show got it wrong just because one Scientist with limited information said so.
@Matthew Walker but the mother was at Chernobyl when the explosion happened so she got radiation before she went to see her husband. He didn't pass it but she already had it. And the real person said that she was there when it happened.
It's portrayal of the physics etc though was more or less accurate. Very over simplified though.
This is one very intelligent and well-spoken woman.
@cardhouseanimal I seems like you do not understand the meaning of the term "well-spoken". Which is quite ironic considering the nature of your criticism.
@Piezonuclear Luna Same. It's horrible, I needed to see the video without sound and putting a finger in the middle to not see his face while she "spoke".
@Amberly Yea You have a good point. I think he just could have said “person” and it wouldn’t sound so condescending
imagine saying “this is one very intelligent and well-spoken man” it sounds ridiculous, just like this sounds ridiculous
Ah yes the floor is made of *FLOOR*
You look at her eyes, and you know : she's seen things...
@Carl Johnson usually just fillers.
Bingo
@37thraven what 😂
@Icakie E, @Emma Baguley, people -- **Public Service Announcement **_on Trolls_**** Don't tag them, Don't reply to them. Don't yell insults at them (i.e. don't "feed" them). Don't debate their points. unless it's to discuss important points with other sensible people in the thread. *Ignore them*
Trust me, I'm just as outraged as you, at the idea that some child-minded doorknob might actually _seriously_ think stupid things (like that the post-surgery attractiveness of a burn victim who saves lives, matters at all), but don't let them drag a conversation into the mud.
There's social science behind what I'm saying. The _only time_ it's worth engaging a fool online, who honestly believes what they're saying, is *_not_* _to change their minds._ It's to inform anyone in a thread who might take their stupidity seriously.
@Pizza Pizza "Unnecessary" 100%. Alla is a gdm real-life hero for committing her life to this research & education, only for some youtube goblin with the emotional insight of a potato, to critique her radiation scars.
I even _get_ the general complaint against plastic surgery vanity (ironically mouthed by the very ppl who *make* others self-conscious about their looks). Vanity has *n o t h i n g* to do with wanting to look like your old self after an injury.
If I were an unkind person, I'd wish some sort of scarring on him, so he gets the psychology of this, but its better that none of us dwell on trolls.
It’s a shame too, Mila did an interview about how harassed she was for choosing to be around her husband and killing her baby. In one interview she said no one explained the dangers to her and she was unaware, in another when asked if she would change a thing, she said no, she explained what his last moments were like and she said how happy they were. She gets so much backlash for killing her baby but turns out if radiation did in fact kill her baby, it wasn’t her fault.
@InitialPC In that case I suppose you’re correct, but I think my point still stands.
@Guy Dunn I'm replying to your comment about radiation behaving the way light does, which is only partly true.
@InitialPC Ok but a simple change of clothes and a shower would fix that. The point is that it’s not like the flu or something, it’s not the person themselves that is “contagious,” at least not significantly.
@Guy Dunn youre talking about gamma radiation, alpha and beta radiation (radioactive particles) if not removed CAN be spread
its even pointed out in this video that the firefighter is not wearing his contaminated clothes and was cleaned so he wouldnt be able to spread contaminants to his wife
I had to make it 666... Apologies
I would actually love to watch a documentary about this woman
There should be a three episode documentary on her; Episode 1: initial response/incident; Episode 2: treatment and immediate aftermath; Episode 3: aftermath and future. Each episode should be 1:30:00, roughly
she's a very smart jewish woman, i'm proud of her as an eastern european ashkenazi as well👍🏼👍🏼
What? Why? She's lying. I disagree. Here's some official video of some of those people in the hospital: thexvid.com/video/um1-Ub5BGac/video.html They look even worse than the HBO series, unfortunately. Especially the one right before the end. They are literally turning green. Is this lady part of some kind of Russian/Soviet disinformation campaign or something? Because these videos of real-life footage are everywhere and they looking freaking horrible and nothing like what she's describing.
my mom was sent there, she was a nurse, she refused and lost her job and even housing - a small price to pay for keeping your life, we moved to poland as soon as the ussr fell....
@Weasle You talk as if you ever did
@Lil Eddy
Some weakenass said something in third world corner there...
💋
@thatasiangirl 0_0 well said!
I quite like the interpretation that the show's exact intent was to portray Chernobyl after the explosion exactly as it was, lies, fear and misinformation. They didn't get everything right but it perfectly illustrates exactly what people believed at that time due to not enough knowledge on radiation and the government's cover-ups. Tv series aren't documentaries and shouldn't be treated as fact.
@InitialPC it is not what they believed at the time
@Majora de Mayhem except thats what people at the time believed, so why wouldnt they put that in the series?
no one believed such things back then ! this is ridiculous !
11:39 there is a difference between representing the effects of misinformation, and weel, depicting it as reality captured in the lens.
@TheMightyZwom You're clearly not a scientist. A physicist can't help you diagnose cholera, but they aren't going to make such a fundamental mistake about the nature of radiation. Radiation is her speciality. That would be like a medical doctor not knowing which way around the human heart goes.
The pain and sadness on her face is shattering at 8:41 as she finishes the sentence: "he would not have been dangerous to anyone who was around him". It then makes sense why she has such a strong reaction to that idea as she then discusses children who were displaced and irrationally rejected for being "radioactive".
ARS isn't contagious, that much is true, but when radioactive particulates are inhaled or ingested, they can linger in the body for months. The firefighters would still be internally contaminated and those particulates would still be emitting gamma radiation.
Regardless of its visual accuracy this series was incredible.
I am affraid, the inaccuracies are not only visual...
@Logiknotlogic I totally agree, the show was indeed nicely put, I was just saying that this guy's first part of the statement is wrong because the visual accuracy is on point and the video depicts and mostly discusses fact checking and I hate people spreading misinformation.
@Cy ha the amount of stuff this series got right and nailed right to the most minute detail is uncanny. Definitely more than what it got slightly wrong which the producers also knew of but still did so for the experience since it’s a show not a documentary. Why do people like you only pick out the worst huh?
@Tim Foote nothing is darker than usa foreign policy ,you are truly evil
So, basically, the show gets some things very wrong about the medical effects of radiation, but was pretty much accurate when it came to the government response.
@Cornelia Li People CAN be heavily contaminated, and you can be sure the ones who walked on radioactive debris or been in radioactive water were heavily contaminated. That's said, decontamination of affected people would be done before doctors and nurses evaluate and treat them.
Correct, radiation burns do not appear right away. There is a latency period for acute radiation poisoning where people appear to recover, before cell death and organ failure sets in to kill the victims.
Not at all. it"s not wrong, but still much over colorized. It"s not a documentary. Its just a pop show for people to watch.
@Fred R - Doesn't look like the make-up on the show at all. The real radiation burns are dry (the only slightly wet one is due to a cream, and it would normally be bandaged), their skin isn't sticky or "melting" like in the show.
My grandmother was a nurse in a medical clinic in Odessa, she was one of the first nurses to help the children as soon as they got off the bus. She told me they were between 10 and 16 years old (my Dad was at this time the same age) and it broke her hearth.
@antonym and I mean obviously a lot of them are going to have family/friends that died of tumors....radiation is a main cause of cancer
@Elizabeth Halt obv there was alot lmao. but youre telling me that every story here is true? There all the same. "bla bla, my family member lived there and died of cancer later, they were the first person too do something"
@antonym ?? Do you not know how many people were affected by Chernobyl. Obviously if people have ties to Chernobyl they will be drawn to and more likely to watch this video, hence then higher amount of people with ties in the comments.
@antonym huh?
i doubt anyone in this comments section actually has ties too chernobyl lol
She’s someone I’d love to hear lecture or have a conversation with. So calm and intelligent.
I just saw another comment saying there are videos of her speaking. Search Dr. Alla Shapiro. I'm gonna after I finish this.
People seem to be missing that the series was designed to show how the USSR was lying about everything and how flawed the governments response was. Science and a proper response was not first and foremost. Not being embarrassed internationally was the primary concern.
Gorbachev's USSR* yes.
I actually think it is a lot more terrifying, because radiation is invisible and its effects are not immediate. It was hard to grasp for people, as they haven't seen anything like that before, it was unprecedented, therefore people had a false sense of safety, they couldn't see or feel the danger approaching.
like any other goverement
I think many people criticize that because on the technical side / physics side when they explain how the incident happened it was pretty accurate. Making the direct victims looks "better" (accurate) does not mean the incident was not actually terrible.
She is spitting out the truth like its nothing... Such an amazing lady she is and I hope to see her again in future projects like this.
@root kit HBO shows usually like that unfortunately... I don't buy it that none of the doctors knew what radiation is... Radiation is something that was well known before the incident. Heck, our bodies right now have some degree of radiation in them just not enough to hurt obviously. People studied this way before and they made it look like something completely new lol
So the guys at Vanity fair actually went looking for a real Dr. who was at Chernobyl. Proudest like in my life
@Phillip Botter Dude.... Chernobyl is in Ukraine... 🤣
@Ku Manon Dirty propaganda piece? An HBO drama based on (key words: BASED ON) the Chernobyl disaster? Come on, really?
@Mailo Reach Best comeback ever 🤣🤣🤣 “Jackass” - “Great show.” HAHA
I read that as "a real Doctor Who"
Agree
Her tone and they way she speaks is so calming and soothing, like every patient must've felt a little bit happy under her care.. She's a true professional.
This lady is an extraordinary human being for doing what she did, knowing well what the dangers were.
It's kind of insulting they would make this while guessing.. they couldn't get into contact with someone like her?
@Justyna Wisniewska i watched it not expecting what to find. The director went to a mix of drama and horror. You can tell by the cinematography and music. I dont think a more accurate and scientific approach would have the same impact. The series is perfect that way . It also serves as an alert to the danger of exposure to nuclear radiation.
R u daft
@Robert Paulson I guess what happened, the drama reflected a lot of beliefs of that time. For example there was a very real view that exposed person is still dangerous. Like very widespread. So not showing this in drama would distort how things actually were. But that is not true, so lady is clarifying this now, because people would believe it. Maybe authors should have released some sort of inserts, to explain this, idk.
There’s not enough time to cover all the smaller horrors of every person effected. So many stories are combined or embellished to express the combined horror of so many cases
This is a riveting clip. I watched the entire series and thought it was excellent, notwithstanding any artistic license that was added for dramatic effect. It is obvious that this Doctor is a legitimate expert on the subject, and the clip makes for an effective counterbalance to the series portrayal of events.
She was so concise and knowledgeable, oh the things she must have seen...
The show looks like comedy or parody show compared to real events took place, that was one true horror
I remember with chernobyl.
@Matt Woodcock The show....
Now take a look at the Real life event
@Cornelius Flake she wasn't repetitive at all but at least she doesn't talk fast enough so you have to skip back 10 seconds each time.
That woman is not a doctor, she is an actress. The real doctors died of radiation many years ago
This woman is a legend and she deserves all the recognition in the world
Apparently there wasn’t eerie synthesised music playing everywhere all the time either.
Tell that until your radiation bleeper start beebing up
@Will Erwin That's a really good point. You've got a fictional character making a series of false statements about history and science, to illustrate how important it is for people to tell the truth. I realize that some of the story has to be fictionalized, but given the content of the speech and the message of the whole series, the writers had a heightened duty to make her speech as honest to real life facts as possible.
The doctor comments on the irony here as well. It's a speech about telling the truth, but nearly everything about the speech and its context is a fabrication.
(Also, her speech is part of a Legasov/Shcherbina conversation that never happened, and was the lead-in to a speech that Legasov never gave in the real trial.)
The problem isn't so much that some scenes weren't realistic, it's that certain characters are portrayed as the truth-tellers, and at several points, they say things that are utterly ludicrous. Examples: "her baby absorbed the radiation for her," statements that the reactor would make all of Europe uninhabitable, or that it could explode with power of a megaton-scale, city-smashing weapon. People around these statements who would all know better don't call out these falsehoods. This gives the viewers the impression that these ludicrous statements are true, which will tend to make them think that nuclear power is insanely dangerous, when in fact it's about the safest source of energy we have. Shows like this are a big part of why we are shuttering perfectly good nuclear power plants in favor of fossil fuel plants.
lol
@Paul Miazga yeah was going to say that was actually not wrong. Also, yeah it's a joke about the synth music, but it was made using samples recorded at a nuclear power plant in lithuania, so in a sense it really is playing at real nuke plants.
In all fairness, let’s remember that even when Chernobyl accident really happened, this was still a tv show so it’s obvious that some creative liberties were taken. This wasn’t a documentary.
but to be fair at no point does she point out anything grossly inaccurate. most of the scenes are accurate according to her, and for the scenes where she points out medical inaccuracies she also points out that people back then truly believed these false infos (such as contagious radiation). the only thing she really critiques is that burn victim but she also point out that she personally just has never seen it.
The tv series succeeded at what it was intended for. Kindling interest in the event. We wouldn't have this interview without that.
Just like Hamilton, it’s accurate to an extent but entertainment wise it they needed to add
I don't understand why she didn't mention that the wife wasn't allowed at her husbands bedside, because SHE was the danger to her husbands barely existing immune system, not the other way around. But moot point, that Dr is remarkable. To have experienced and helped through such a crisis, I can't (and don't want to) imagine what horrible things she saw and heard. And despite (or because) of all of that, she's out there educating with a lot of knowledge and experience in her backhand and a very calm demeanor. That's class.
Honestly, Chernobyl will never stop being terrifying
Japan: Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the death of Hisashi Ouchi, Fukushima disaster are all more terrifying in my humble opinion
And it shouldn't
Welcome to the Zone stalker!
It will stop being terrifying in 200 years.
@ANIME WORLD My guess is that they will clean it up in time.
The show wasn't really about the science though...it was about the cost of lies.
@Michael A they had a responsibility to make it as accurate as possible because this is a horrible tragedy that impacted many generations and millions of people
@Sam W they actually did try and make it relatively accurate, for example the first fire trucks to appear had nearly exactly the same markings and the uniform was entirely accurate - even the procedure they used to extinguish the fire was the same as in 1986. Unfortunately it’s always a balance between scientific accuracy and the freedom to tell a compelling story, however I personally thought it was great to show the stories and the consequences of the accident.
but when the shows depicts lies??? it undermines the message.
It still gave a lot off people the wrong idea about nuclear power.
@Michael A It's not uncommon to do proper research when a filmmaker wants to show the real story, what it was realy like. This is just a drama series trying to make a buck.
The burned fireman reminds me of the injuries experienced by Hiroshi Ouchi and Masato Shinohara as a result of the Tokaimura nuclear accident, but it took a long time for their conditions to degrade to that level.
@Weeb Destroyah Thank you for mentioning this. I hear the 'evil scientest' claims a lot on the internet, and while I guess that it's easy to come to that conclusion, I think it's important to understand that his family was largely responsible for his prolonged agony, not the doctors.
@ferahgotheassasin That was the wishes of Ouchi's family, not the doctors. The doctors were horrified themselves at what they had to do.
@ferahgotheassasin Dunno if this helps at all, but the image I assume you saw was most likely not a photo of Ouchi, but some other person that people online misidentified. Then again, that means that some other poor soul reached that condition...😶
To anybody reading this please DO NOT Google search pictures of them unless you want to see something truly horrific... saw a picture of Ouchi at an advanced stage of radiation exposure once without knowing what I was getting into and I can never unsee it. The worst thing is knowing that they were real people and suffered truly horrifically, not movie effects. The Japanese scientists kept Ouchi alive as long as possible to study the effects and as a result his suffering went on for an extremely long time... really inhumane stuff.
The exposure to severe radiation is actually not that well documented so the FX team did not have that much material for very late stages - there’s a Variety video interviewing the lead makeup artist. So in the end although makeup was definitely the most fictionalised, the show was very well researched. People forget it wasn’t a documentary, it was a tv show based on true events portraying what people felt during the event, and they did it really well.
Although after watching this clip I'm more sure that Chernobyl series have exaggerated scenes, I still think they took a big step to show this disaster to the whole world with its all reality after more than 30 embarrassing years. And biggest respect to this brave and strong woman 💪🏻🙏🏻
Dr. Shapiro is a true expert on this topic and she is also an outstanding oncologist/hematologist. Glad to see VF got the perfect person to comment on this powerful mini-series.
@Hugh Jass The irony of you callyling a Ben Shapiro hater a bigot :P That's comedy gold
@TheGhost Nicole S I was in Chernobyl and visited stray kittens. I touched them, they were very cute. The video is on my channel.
@Duskripper Nicole S I was in Chernobyl and visited stray kittens. I touched them, they were very cute. The video is on my channel.
cha rin his wife is a doctor
Say what you want about the series - it started a conversation about this. It got people asking questions, it got people looking for the truth. Something that certain people wanted to provide very little of at a time when it might have actually helped.
Passed so many years and she continues to choose the words that she says.
Yeah that's what non-native speakers do lmfao
@AzureAnie basically 1. Information is already on opened sources 2. It doesn't really hurt the nowdays government and if u ask me even helps 3. If she was in danger she wouldnt be there
@The Mage im glad some understood my first comment, but the other person who didnt understood it and asked about it helped other people who also hardly connected what i said to the first comment)
@child I see, so you just interpreted a different way. It makes sense, the original comment could go either way. Can I ask, why is it unrealistic for her to be choosing her words carefully due to politics?
@The Mage ironic how you say it's the other person's lack of "understanding skills" when the comment references the doctor's native language not being English
Such a powerful and brilliant woman. I watched this series also believing it was based on adhering strongly to the facts but it’s very insightful having these misconceptions corrected thank you!
This was super cool to watch! My grandma was in med school at the time and was one of the many people brought in to help with the clean up. Anyway mad respect to this woman.
Hope she's in a good place for all the service she provided :)
Just sayin, if one day a whole bunch of government doctors show up in my area to tell us all there's nothing wrong, I'm packing a suitcase and leaving.
Same
@Kat59 I had never realized people loved brunch so much that they'd risk their lives to do it.
@neobe or going to Mars
Yes panic that will stop the radiation
Thank you for clearing up fact vs fiction. I always thought the 'fetus absorbing the radiation' was a fallacy.
Dr. Shapiro, I would like to extend my thank you for your response to this show. I imagine that it is inevitable that some dramatic licence is taken when producing a show such as this even when it is based on real world events. But I do completely agree with you about the importance of basing our responses to emergency situations on facts. Misinformation has certainly been a plague in the united states for this past year given the current pandemic. It is how we have faired on average five times worse than the world as a whole in terms of cases and deaths per capita.
Only the wanton spread of misinformation can explain how a nation that has 4.2% of the world's population could play host to approximates 20% of the entire number of cases and fatalities. 224,308 people have died in this nation as of the writing of this comment attributed to Covid 19. That number should be approximately 44,861 assuming we did only as well as the rest of the world. 179,447 unwarranted deaths via negligence in leadership is what has transpired this year in the united states. To me, that certainly seems like a worthwhile case to be tried in the world court for crimes against humanity.
#endhatrednow
Very informative, I figured the authors would have taken some liberties when it comes to the actual scientific details (given that is not a documentary but a dramatized account I cannot really blame them) but it is still better to know all the actual facts. That said, the series was wonderfully made and the fact that it reignited in many people (myself included) an interest in an event that is often either mythicized or simply forgotten is something that I think should be commended.
I also think this woman could kill me with just her eyes if she wanted... Total badass.
I noticed that Dr. Shapiro recently published a book entitled "Doctor on Call: Chernobyl Responder, Jewish Refugee, and Radiation Expert". Incredible book-must read!
"Should be based on science, not on fear" Those words have, nowadays, become such a rarity..
@Goos Gasgas Science is whatever the State party says it is these days and you're part of the cult.
So stop being afraid of something that has better than a 99% survival rate.
@jemimallah sure let's diminish others to fulfill our own insecurities. Typical.
@Schatten2712 lmao looks like someone's watched a 3-minute youtube clip about brain evolution
1 year later and this rings truer than Pierrebe4492 could have ever known
The most accurate part of this show wasn't the medical facts but how the government caused and dealt with it
One important thing to note was that the show was mostly focused on portraying the experiences and beliefs of those involved, which means that they show what the people believed or were told at the time. Some of what they believed or were told at the time was not medically accurate.
We have to take into account the limited knowledge doctors had then, which explains why some inaccuracies made it into the show, especially if the government took away all the books and journals!
I am so glad she is healthy 💕
She gained respect in her first introduction sentence!
Obviously the problem here is that this woman is about 14 times smarter than the average anybody.
Women at the FDA have Frances Oldham Kelsey to live up to - she’s a legend and an inspiration.
She's a nice person.
The drama did overdramatice some things, but she did downplay some things.
4000 to 93000 is very accurate, if you include disabilities you can go even much higher.
Glad I watched this, why can’t programs be as factual as possible rather leaving it up to interpretation.
@Welana exactly, there are plenty of documetaries of this
Because it's not a documentary
Most of the facts that were wrong were actually what was believed at the time, like the fetus absorbing the mothers radiation. Doctors told her that, now we know its not true.
Thank you for educating most of us about nuclear radiation.
To me it was perfectly clear that the show was a fiction based on a true story. The visual treatment it has and the way it is narrated almost like a terror film ( which excuses some "lack of realism") is the reason why it is sooooo amazing and unique.I loved it
"Our response should be based on science, not on fear." Boy should that be the slogan for 2020...
And it was. People made the right decision.
And here we are... 2022 :(
@Leilani Z The scientists are the ones who recommended that. Did you even read the OP comment?
Our response should be based on our Lord Jesus Christ, not on fear.
And 2021, 2022…seems like we’re all at Soviet’s Russia all over again
Her final words are truly something that should be how we speak of the past.
This woman is wise and wisdom should always be thanked when passed along.
I am so glad I had the opportunity to hear her speak. 💕💕💕
Toptunov'd skin injuries, as depicted in the HBO's Chernobyl, are clearly based on this historic footage (24:48), albeit exaggerated for dramatic purposes. The actor portraying Toptunov actually looks more like the person in the clip (by the proortions of his head) then like the real life Toptunov (who kinda looked like a younger Akimov - the actor playing him did resemble his real life counterpart). thexvid.com/video/um1-Ub5BGac/video.html
Thank you. This doctor has been saying what I have been saying for a long time about this. The deaths were insanely inflated and goes counter to most long term studies of that incident.
9:26 These are not burns. This is how a person exposed to radiotion will look like after ionising radiation tears the cellular structure apart. Then the cellular damage begins to manifest. Bone marrow dies, immune system fails. The organs and soft tissue begin to decompse. Those decays are the result of this decomposition.
@Halinaqi 2 Hisashi Ouchi look him up. not be dead by that point tho you may wish it
@zimriel That was Hisashi Ouchi. The medical team tried everything to save him in accordance with his family's wishes but it was futile. I don't think they were trying to keep him alive, they were doing what they thought they had to.
@UnkemptChannel Wasn't there some Japanese guy who got irradiated and they kept him alive for two months?
@Thanh oh my god……..*tries not to barf.*
I like the way she talks. Though she is pointing out the series flaws here, she is no way near being judgmental. What she says are facts that we should learn
@Josh willis no,putin is fine
She said that a fetus can't absorb radiation, then want on to say that there is no evidence. That would make it her opinion. Just because someone says fact check doesn't mean lack of opinion. The child did die by the way.
Vanity Fair doing doing true serious journalism. Most media just regurgitating press releases, funny world we live in
They don't do it very often. Props to them for doing it this time.
They need that money.
Watching this lady reviewing those scenes in that slow and articulate way gives me chills.
All my respects, by the way. She is a heroine.
I seriously believe that most inacuracies portrayed by her were regular beliefs at the time, like Legasov said, they were dealing with something that had never occured in this planet
"Science not fear" is a very timely statement.
Its crazy how many people in the comments are saying that a certified doctor who had first hand experience working with the patients in this situation is incorrect... I'm sorry were you there too
@Duvdev It's not called a "downvote" button, and it doesn't actually do anything. Go back to reddit.
@hardcoras apotinazaret I bet you believe in essential oils as well. Spaz
I am really suprised how people in the western hemisphere are poorly informed about what happened in Černobilj. I was 30 when it happened, lived in Croatia at that time. We were told by our authorities (Yugoslav) not to eat anything that was grown in our fields and gardens that year, were given the pills to lessen the consequences to our tyroid glands. My eldest daughter was diagnosed with inoperable spinal cord cancer a month after the accident occured. It was obvious that the cancer had already been there since there were some symptoms that I had been noticing ever since she started to walk , the Černobil radiation just sped up the process. She died 4 years later. We knew about the sacrifice of the first responders, about Černobil children that were transported all the way to Cuba to be treated for radiation sickness. So, for me, the HBO series was just another element in the political saga of blaming SSSR (read Russia) for all the crimes in the modern history.
@Dali Sorry I meant Sky Uk. I heard mostly British accents.
@Dali It's a BBC show.
The story of Svetlana incorporated into the tv show is based on an actual autobiography. I read that before watching the TV show. It’s sad that she blamed herself for her baby’s death. I suppose she lots the baby because of her initial exposure?
I teach Class 7 (Radioactives) transport by road in the UK. As such I try hard to deal in fact and I think this lady's account is calm, measured, considered and credible. Every time I teach a course I have to tell people just how few people died in the first 24 hours - under 50. Same time span for Bhopal and that figure was over 5,000 with, according to govt figures over 500,00 subsequently adversely affected.
Thank you for this video, I shall add it to my reference library to spread knowledge, not fear.
There's only one thing that's wrong with this amazing show: it was based on true events, and insane ones at that.
Great video and amazing insight. It's very easy to judge the Soviet Union and say that they did this and that, hid information, threatened people etc. etc., but people have to realize that this is the first time in history that such a catastrophic event occurred. While I'm sure that the government had some sort of plan on what to do in such an event, there's no way they could've properly been prepared for what happened. So they did their best to mitigate the worst. Imagine what would have happened if they were completely transparent and told everyone on national television "hey, Chernobyl blew up, the air and soil are now poisonous, your children and animals are probably already infected, they will die of cancer and there's nothing we can do about it". Mob mentality ensues instantly, riots on the streets, stores are demolished, and so on.
There's no excuse for the kind of negligence that caused the accident in the first place, but once it already happened, no one can really say that they could have done better than the Soviets in mitigating what happened next. 4300 to 93000 deaths is an absolute tragedy, don't get me wrong, but it could have been much, much, much worse if the Soviets underestimated how much danger there is in fear and mass hysteria.
Very well done, doctor was so clear with her explanations very impressive. What a time to have lived through, can’t even imagine.
"Our response (to help those affected by a nuclear accident) should be based on science, not on fear". Wise words. And kudos for the writers that decided to propagate falsehoods that endanger people's lives. For dramatic effect, no doubt. *sarcasm*
I couldn't help but feel relief when she stated that the one firefighter would most likely not have been in such a massively degenerative state, although I realize he would have still been in pain and suffering terribly. That was one of the scenes that broke me. The series was an exquisite commentary on both the absolute worst and absolute best of which man is capable.
I've just watched the series and I was very impressed with the scene which the firefighter holds a piece of graphite and in a few minutes his hand begins to burn and dissolve. Is it true? Is it possible to have such serious injuries for holding a radioactive piece for just a few seconds?
Huge respects to this woman for what she's seen in her life
@Ivan Monahhov explain yourself
Good at reading script. Try looking her up.
I have a question: couldn't it be that to be radioactive weren't the firefighters' bodies, but the contaminated particles they inhaled when they estinguished the fire? Those particles could still emitt radiations, if I'm not wrong.
Anyway, the story of Lyudmilla Ignatenko is the only part of the series that I don't like. Her baby's death was caused by an heart defect that must have existed before the supposed contamination, as such defects are developed usually in the first three months of pregnancy, while Lyudmilla gave birth two months after the disaster, therefore she must have been in the fifth-seventh month, at that time. The show only had to point out that the cause was not radiations, in the epilogue...
I am so grateful for her knowledge, but am still wondering about a "final number"... this had to go one for generation after generation... even certain meteorological events had to shift radiation in different directions before the Dome was built...
The things she had to have seen, and the people she must have interacted with, all with the knowledge that she has...
I never want to even imagine... I'm both sad and thankful that I left the Medical field early.
I honestly admit that I do not have what it takes.
There are good points brought up in this video, however, some of the incorrect information simply portrayed incorrect beliefs that were manifested at the time. The story about the pregnant woman and the dead child, for example, is very close to one of the testimonies in Svetlana Alekseyevich's Voices of Chernobyl. It's no less a "mistake" by the writters than a historical character in the middle ages talking about miasma theory.
When registering my son for daycare and school, there was a question in the forms whether I gave permission for him to receive potassium iodine in case of a nuclear disaster. I wonder if this is standard everywhere?
Here in Austria it is standard.
I think this may be close to areas of nuclear power plants or areas that could be affected by nuclear waste/ disasters but I could be wrong
She doesn’t sound like a “know it all” even though she does KNOW IT ALL! She talks in such a nice way that she genuinely just wants to inform and not seem like she is better. So nice :)
We need more people like her, not trying to force-feed us and present themselves as know-it-alls, above-all... but to actually explain, inform, protect. Knowledge is power.
@microsoftpainenthusiast what is an acceptable term to describe collectively the country's that were the USSR.
Randomly Interesting *in soviet Ukraine, but I got your point
just don‘t like word „russian“ because I am Ukrainian too🐣
@bipedalbob yes her color plays in her image. White older women are given card blanche when it comes advice.this is how you should speak when being a female intellectual. Sound like a white woman.that doesnt sound aggressive like a know it all. The original comment seemed off, "ooo she doesnt sound like a know it all, sounds kind of mean girlish." What if she was a black woman or a chinese woman would she ssssooouuunnd like a know it all?
I dont buy it to the stereotype crap unless they pay me...lolololololololololol.😄😄😄😄but the commentary was good.
@Seeking Pathways colour has no significance, but with age can come wisdom , but it's not guaranteed.
9:40 These are not burns. Basically his skin and internal organs start to disintegrate. Radiation destroyed his DNA and his shells could no longer multiply. That process takes days even weeks(depending the amount of exposure) so that sceen looks really realistic based on evidence.
It would be interesting to also get the perspective of a health physicist. Washington State University has people who study the impact of radiation on the human body. They manage the US Transuranium and Uranium Registries.
i loved the show and also how Alla debunked most of what was portrayed in a straight forward manner. amazing lady
7:00 that is the craziest thing I’ve ever heard.... they are only 2nd to the us in nuclear power and arsenals, but didn’t train their doctors with even the most basic information( even though they have been working on nuclear projects for 3 decades at the point.) and this was after the third worst accident ever, which happened in Mayak/city 40 way before Chernobyl.... man, the ussr was cold.... I am glad they are Russia again! 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
You're telling me Vanity Fair had the time to consult an actual radiation expert for a 13 minute response vid, but HBO couldn't consult one for a WHOLE SERIES?
@Nipple Flexer thank you.... When she claimed those radiation burns were far fetched I instantly thought of him and called BS.... Hisashi Ouchi looked much worse than the firefighter in the movie did...
How smart you are.... Wheres your proof that they didnt hire any experts? Thats just an idiotic claim that holds no merit... Also this "radiation expert" says those burns are far fetched yet go look up Hisashi Ouchi and his radiation burns... They were much worse so I have a hard time believing the burns on the firefighter could be so farfetched it just depends what he came into contact with
@Jesse Terrell it is in no way a hit piece. If anything it highlights what happens when something as volatile as nuclear energy can go horribly wrong when gross incompetence and government under spending is allowed to happen. Chernobyl is a cautionary tale, not a hit piece.
Its a TV show. They mix fact with fiction to make it entertaining. And guess what? The show was amazing!
I was three years old when this happened. I asked my mom if she remembers hearing anything about this, because I was so young and wouldn’t remember, and she said she did but it wasn’t a lot. Gave me the chills. But I can understand not telling everyone how bad it was to not cause panic but in hindsight they should have told them so these people do they knew exactly what was happening but…. I can understand why.
I read the book, Midnight At Chernobyl before watching the series. I would say that is a better account of what happened and it goes into detail about the makeup of reactors and how radiation works.
Huge respect to the lady!
However, the series is of course a dramatization and the story of Ljudmila Ignatienko was told by herself in the report book Chernobyl Prayer by Svetlana Alekseievich. So all those things may be disbelief but it is her disbelief, which makes the whole stuff very personal and it amazes me as well.
At the start I was doubtful, but then literally two seconds later she immediately gained my respect.
She was a first responder... people don’t have a right to tell her they know better.
If a first responder is under the influence of a political ideology that tells you to lie, then your first response can mean nothing. Not saying she isnt right here...but being a first responder isnt a quality batch in general.
@Trevor McKinney Are you aware of why journals have peer reviews? To validate the opinions and findings of individuals into more robust science. Validating an argument via the authority of the source is one of the prime logical fallacies for a reason. And high-quality textbooks are always citing sources or compile the current standing of the scientific community as a whole. A textbook written by one person with no validation and sources is worthless, even if the author is a highly acclaimed professor.
well ufo witness are also first responder. dont get me wrong, she is right, but your argument is wrong
Andrew M That number counted deaths not people affected
There is probably one thing she was not correct in 9:42 however she is right in a sense that these people won't survive until this state of being. Artists may had been inspired by consequences of Tokai-mura accident in 1999.
HBO series is about 95 percent accurate there were some things wrong or changed but is stellar.
Never saw this clip before. Thank you for sharing it with us. Man, I like that MD already! Honest, scientific on a layman's level .... can't ask for much more than that! :)
I want the same lady to talk about myths of the Corona virus 10 years later
@haters gotta hate, we just gotta slay 💅🔪 yeps i do. My husband was on a nuclear submarine. Trust, we all got radiation training, couldn't live on base without it.
Haha so basically shed talk about how the cdc and who lied about everything? Agreed.
@Kevin J. Dildonik Or the people claiming they are effective?
@Tania Tinn No luck involved. Most, myself included never had a diagnosis. Covid19 has never been isolated. If u Can isolated and identify it thén you are in for 1.5 million US$.
@Halcyon thank your lucky stars then.
Jeez i watched this show after the series finale of Game of Thrones on HBO and it's a pretty gripping, powerful, makes you want to watch the next episode to find out what happened type of show. It was really good. It's nice to know some were fiction and it was just to make it dramatic for the storytelling. But dang hopefully this never ever happens in any era, history, or a generation.
What a truly fascinating woman. Could listen to her experiences & expertise all day long.
What is more horrifying is that this is all knowledge that hasn't been allowed to be clarified for decades. This is probably the first time this doctor has been able to talk about what actually happened due to the restrictions set up by the Soviet Union. Not a lot of difference to how COVID is being handled but our government can't restrict the citizens like pre tech ages
Great video, I get that she thinks the upper estimate of deaths related to Chernobyl are over exaggerated, but they have examples of the max and min people have estimated, to make a point compared to the “official” losses that the Soviet Union says
10:22 - That was actually a secondary effect: a painter suffered radiation poisoning, went slightly mad, and started painting random people's skin. There was a huge cover-up (using a roller).
Much respect to this brilliant woman
I mean entertainment wise and emotionally the series was great... but please people do not take every detail in series based on true events for the the truth. Great to have this woman shed her knowledge and experience on what was a semi realistic piece of ENTERTAINMENT