The Truth about Hydrogen
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- Published on Jul 27, 2018
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Errors: I made an off hand comment about adding efficiencies in the video without thinking. This is obviously incorrect, but the final calculation does in fact multiply the efficiencies.
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Science & Technology
Just make the EVs charge at higher power until they take the same time to recharge.
G'day from Australia. The CSIRO which is our leading scientific research center has been successful in transportation of hydrogen gas by using ammonia.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah I'll just stick with gasoline thank you very much
May I suggest we take a pause and wonder why Japan invests in Hydrogen considering Japanese companies lead in battery technology. Seems like Germany is also investing in Hydrogen. I worry that we become dependent on rare materials like Lithium. Mined in China? Perhaps there are other choices but when? I am just an Engineer who respects Japanese and German basic research. Elon Musk may be a genius. Is he considering what is best for USA long term? Is a Giga factory in China best for USA?
why not use hydrogen directly as "fuel" in a combustion engine?
it has a WAY denser powerdencity (octane) than gasoline ...
why dos it have to be converted to electricity???
there are a lot of inaccuracies in this video, a lots of info about batteries not included, H2 production and storage, electricity grids are not built to handle power requirements needed for majority drivers to go on battery cars, cost of overhauling the entire US electricity grid?
Plus there are experimental ways and traditional methods of mass producing H2 without pollution, e.g. Hydro-thermal power (Iceland can supply all Europe's needs for H2) and scientists are genetically engineering algae to use photosynthesis and mass produce H2 very cheaply from Sea water. Add to that new storage methods using nano tech which don't need to pressurise or cool H2 in order to store large amounts.
Basic fact is H2 is far, far more powerful per Kg than Batteries, incidentally 2.5X more powerful per Kg than Petrol, which makes it a far better source of energy provided sufficient investment is given to solve some engineering problems, and Greedy SOBs dont block the technology from maturing.
(1) Hydrogen is still more efficient than gasoline.
(2) Water is abundant. Every other fuel is going to be used up.The burning of hydrogen produces only water. Thus reducing pollution. The water produced just becomes a part of the water cycle.
(3) Hydrogen could be used to make electricity, which could then be used to run electric vehicles.
(4) Renewable sources of energy, like Hydroelectricity, Geothermal energy, Tide energy, and wind power could be used to make the Hydrogen by electrolysis of water.
(4) Cars with Internal Combustion Engines can be easily adjusted to work with hydrogen.
Sooner or later we will have to turn to hydrogen.
To 1. please elaborate
To 2. Sure but the water does not give up the Hydrogen without a fight and it takes more energy to convince the water to give up the Hydrogen then you will ever get from the Hydrogen that's being produced.
To 3. and the Hydrogen was produced from what? Natural Gas? Oil? Coal? Renewable (your point 4)? IMO far more efficient to cut out the middle process of making the Hydrogen and use the sources directly to make the electricity and charge the EV directly
To 4. Using Hydrogen for smoothing out peaks and lows of renewable Electricity production has possibilities but using renewable for primary Hydrogen production, nope just not efficient.
To 4 below the other 4 ( guess you made a Typo ). I say conditionally yes however the big question is how are you going to handle the onboard Hydrogen storage issues?
Hydrogen makes sense in large vehicles like: ships, trains, trucks, buses... and planes
Electric charging is free near me
Here is some more about CSIRO's ammonia to hydrogen memebrane technology
www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2018/CSIRO-tech-accelerates-hydrogen-vehicle-future
Hey there butthurt hydrogen fanatics.
I'm talking to YOU Toyota.
This seems like a huge promotion for Tesla, I understand Elon is very charismatic and he has many fan boys, but just manufacturing the car already bloody pollutes the atmosphere more than anything. How can one say these vehicles are pollution free?
Ok then more to the point, lithium is rare and terrible after a few charge cycles. And I would love to know how it’s going to be manufactured and refueled when we run out of fossil fuels.
Nuclear power? Why can’t there be a centralised hydrogen and water distillation cum power plant near the sea and distribution networks?
Love your videos, but sorry my man. This one just makes my ears bleed like listening to a used car salesman.
Lithium mining isn't green. The actual production of solar panels isn't green. Windmills kill birds. I'm not saying, therefore "X" but it's not like green energy is really green either. Also, we don't have enough room for enough solar panels to power everything.
What a bunch of nonsense propaganda against Hydrogen.
I think that he is just saying that hydrogen isn't there yet. With further development of hydrogen technology and production, hydrogen (in my mind) can outrun batteries.
500km range? Wow, that's barely usable in Europe, how anyone expect it to be usable in US? And when it comes to Tesla the charging time just kills the idea for me.
1000km with under 10min refuellings on the road is my minimum while living in central Europe.
@ollierkul Well, I'm from Poland, my college is over 400km from my home, I have to make the trip multiple times a year, it would barely last for me. And my college is on central Poland, if I'd manage to get into more prestigious one, then I literally wouldn't be able to use that car to travel.
Even traveling around region I wouldn't be surprised to run low on energy with Tesla. The closest big city fromy home is around 150km, that's 300km without counting going around the city between different interest points, visiting friends and buying at the shops.
Not to mention the cost of a car means that it WILL affect your future life decisions, such as where you will live ( better not move somewhere where there are power outtakes and it's above 50km from a somewhat big city, you may get strandled without a means of transport ), what job you'll take (if it requires traveling a lot and doesn't provide own car, you can't take it, even if it provides own car, such as a TiR driver it may make your life miserable if you'll have to exchange a guy due to some reasons and he's over 250km from your home) and many others.
I just don't see a car that has such a low range with such a high charging time being usefull to anyone who wouldn't be 100% fine with not owning a car at all and just using public transport.
A lot of us live in cities or close to cities and dont do long journeys. The longest journeys I do is typically to my cottage, about 150km, maybe a bit more. And that includes quite a lot of going up and down and being ik a colder climate that Norway has, so you can factor in some efficieny loss there. In a model 3 that journey would be no problem. And then it comes with the benefit of being able to charge it at home overnight. So realistically I very rarely would have to fill up at a station, unlike a gas car. As with most things there are cons and pros, and for many of us EV's pros outway the cons... especially the cost at the moment.
Some people will be able to make their own Hydrogen
@I don't give a Fork , re-read your post and you wrote don't need to make it on demand, sorry about that. With this I will rephrase my questions thereafter a bit. How much electrical energy ( renewable or not ) is approx. required to produce a kg of H2 which gives a Toyota Mirai FCEV approx. 100km driving distance and is this competitive against charging a BEV overnight with the same electrical energy or in case of use of non renewable utility electricity competitive with the petrol prices for current ICE vehicles?
@Milan Swoboda Well practically Free!! I said "some people" will be able to make their own Hydrogen...Not everyone, just people with a little land. Obviously not everyone is in that position. However many people may be able to access Hydrogen produced by local community systems. Tax on gasoline In the UK is very high, so Hydrogen from mains electricity can be produced cheaper than gasoline. I dont understand your comment about "demand production"? I said " Your system could make it for you while you are at work or while you sleep and store it.. 24/7" ..Which is the opposite of on demand ie producing it slowly
@I don't give a Fork , renewable is not free because you have to first invest in it plus you have to invest into the Hydrogen production equipment, additional there are running cost like maintenance of the whole system which is not free
Oh yes on demand production - please elaborate on how you are going to achieve that and would appreciate some numbers like H2 produced ( kg or Liters ) with how much energy needed to produce it, where you're going to get that energy from and how much excess usable energy is going to be produced. Just some rough numbers I'm not too picky.
@Milan Swoboda Free! if you make it from renewables. But the beauty is you dont need to make it on demand. Your system could make it for you while you are at work or while you sleep and store it.. 24/7
How about mixing Hydrogen with your Petrol instead of normal Air.? Hydrogen is explosive and help Petrol to give you higher explosion leading to adjusting Petrol input to a lower level thus using less Petrol. Cheap to manufacture Hydrogen from water. Google Hydrogen making here on TheXvid. Very easy and cheap.!
@Barry Burgert Potgieter Oh and I forgot here examples of what "real" Hydrogen generation equipment is like just to give yo a better idea.
www.fuelcellstore.com/hydrogen-equipment/industrial-hydrogen-generators
There you see equipment with a H2 production range from 0.06 kg/day up to 2.5 kg a day with a power consumption range from about 64.5 kWh/kg H2 to 90 kWh/kg H2
@Barry Burgert Potgieter LOL yeah it does make a nice bang but to get useable energy out of it you need a very large volume of H2. 1kg of H2 is the specific energy equivalent of 3.8 liters Gasoline. That means it is lighter than the Gasoline which would weigh about 2.85kg which is nice, however 1kg of uncompressed H2 has a volume of about 12 cubic meters which would be a spherical balloon with a diameter of 2.8 meters filled with only Hydrogen. The electricity needed to make that amount of Hydrogen via Electrolysis would be from about 50 kWh ( large scale ) to over 150 kWh ( small scale ).
Note that kg of H2 would give a Toyota Mirai FCV a driving range of about 100km ( careful driving ) and current BEVs consume about 15 to 25 kWh of electricity for the same distance.
@Milan Swoboda Thanks. I tried on a small scale that resulted in one hell of an explosion. Nearly shat myself. LOL!!!!
Hydrocarbon fuels already contain plenty of Hydrogen hence the name Hydro(gen)carbon and adding a little H2 to the inlet Air is not going to help much if anything. Those like you that say that Hydrogen is cheap to manufacture from water do not understand how much Hydrogen actually needs to be produced to replace a given quantity of Petrol and how much energy is really needed to produce that quantity. Reality would likely send you shivers down the spine ;)
I am not engineer but can we made wind power car?
Japan has 78.1 Million cars so 40.000 cars on Hydrogen is NOTHING... far from a Hydrogen society....
40k cars in 2021 i think
This one is in Swedish but exciting: "The first petrol station in the world where hydrogen is produced on-site and anyone can refuel."
www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/folj-med-till-varldens-forsta-sjalvforsorjande-vatgasmack
The gas tank in my car weighs 45kg when empty. Find me a hydrogen tank that weighs the same amount and can travel 450km. There is no need to reinvent the wheel here.
A couple of things this video does not mention:
1: both options are hugely cheaper than gasoline/petrol in day to day running costs. But, how much to replace worn out batteries/fuel cells?
2: lithium based batteries are NOT the answer. Lithium is already a relatively rare element not including how nasty it is to the environment to purify and recycle.
3: where is the comparison to burning Hydrogen in combustion engines like gasoline/petrol?
Money Cost should NOT be the main reason. LONG TERM sustainable with the least damage to environment should be primary reason.
Finally, to the people saying we should stick with gasoline.... sooner than you think there will be no option. The days of pumping pure crude oil from the ground are almost over. That is why oil companies are working with fracking mud oil, tar pits and oil sands... in other words, the low quality dregs.
3: Burning H2 gives water vapour. As greenhouse gas this is worse than CO2. Besides that, combustion engines or not efficient at all!
Allahu Akbar
Why not use the hot water from a nickel power plant the waters he did anyway to run the steam turbines to create energy he could be used as a due process to make hydrogen
Why turn CH4 int H ...Just use the CH4 as fuel...
Why turn CH4 int H ...Just use the CH4 as fuel...
Imagine 2 billion car owners attempting to store H2. TINY molecule! It can literally diffuse straight thru steel, but think of all the connectors for the plumbing. They leak a LOT! if 2 billion tanks with supply and output plumbing,... Atmospheric H2 %age will go up up UP, and H2 loss... to space... forever, will go up BIGLY, with it.
Hydrogen escape issue:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_escape#Jeans_Escape
All good points,... but missing:
The huge problem with H2:
It leaks.
"yeah, so?"
When it leaks, and it always does, because... Smallest molecule,
ahem,...when it leaks, a notable percentage reaches ESCAPE VELOCITY. We'd pump H2 off the planet. PLANET KILLER.
look it up
Plugging into the grid only outsources emissions, not eliminates them.
What about the cost of battery replacement cost while the hydrogen cost zero?
Amasmsam In 2020 Tesla will introduce a Battery which will last for 1 Million Miles, which is far longer than you want to Drive the car:
electrek.co/2019/04/23/tesla-battery-million-miles-elon-musk/
Currently, a lot of our power in the United States is generated by natural gas and coal (because of this its more efficient to heat a house with gas for instance). Solar sounds nice but generates so little electricity and doesn't work well in certain areas let alone is affected by weather and lack of sunlight in general. Lithium cells are heavy, have limited lifespans, pollute and don't store much electricity compared to their weight and size. The cost of hydrogen will go down when more then 20 people are driving the vehicles. Not to mention that during winter the electric cars become very in efficient suffering from the constant to need to warm the batteries. Hydrogen also seems like the natural choice to preserve the industry and jobs currently a result of fossil fuel (fuel stations, production, and transportation). I think we should continue to pursue every avenue available to us, let the technologies advance and give both a fair shake before coming to conclusions.
@Saucy Secretz On this planet Lithium is more abundant than Lead which is used in pretty much in every ICE vehicle out there plus radiation shielding, back-up power systems. ...etc. so no I do not see it problematic. Yes high efficiency motors used worldwide ( not limited to EV use ) use Neodymium which has the "rare Earth" designation but also there I do not see a problem on the long run since it is not the only option for Electric motors out there .
Btw I guess you forgot to answer my question on what " rare Earth " really means
@Milan SwobodaAlso found an interesting article about EV's on Investor Intel regarding the rare earth magnets used in EV motors (neodymium and praseodymium).
@Milan Swoboda Sorry should have said limited. Lithium is however, rare within our universe.
Lithium is a rare earth metal, who told you that lie? Furthermore do you even know what the ¨rare earth metal¨ designation really means and where it came from?
Well the cost of a battery is too high, and the energy density per kg to low, also factor in you must have your battery packs serviced every few years due to failing cells. ie battery cells degrade over time holding less energy as they age and i'm fairly certain that servicecost will outweight the cheaper charging cost, plus factor in that more people driving those battery cars drive up the electricity cost and now everyone will pay high energy bills,YAY! besides unless we embrace nuclear power and stop being so fearful, you can forget about it all with the unreliable energy-yield from solar/wind.
That being said hydrogen also requires energy to be produced,however it's energydensity per kg is much higher, also hydrogen gas is highly flammable so proper safety mechanisms such as quick drain valves are a must for those pressurized containers if you have them in vehicles.but the tanks don't need replacement or revision periodically but they may need inspection and certification every decade or so akin to the high pressure diving equipment. For larger countries as the USA localized production is better than centralized production facilities, yes prices will rely on supply/demand and fluctuate. Smaller countries might be better of with centralized production to cut costs.
Personally from what i know i find the hydrogen fuelcell a better option overall.
GhostDogg o Service Costs are actually much loser than ICEs (less moving parts, not so much Heat...). Batterys will last longer than you want to drive:
electrek.co/2019/04/23/tesla-battery-million-miles-elon-musk/
You definitely dont have to Service the Cells Every Few years. With Technology Right now, after 560k km you have 88% of your battery capacity left:
insideevs.com/news/342457/this-tesla-model-x-90d-covered-350000-miles-on-original-battery/
fuel cell blimps ftw
Electric Cars are the Greatest threat to the Environment.. Only dumbed down people believe the international banking C02 BS narrative.
@jakethepeg33 Electric Car fires are like a dirty bomb. .By the time they have a lot of them the heavy metal pollution areas will be shocking the batteries degrade over time what is to be done with them. The vehicles damage the road surface due to weight. Use a lot more rubber and tyres all leading to a far worse outcome. That is apart from the known dangers in the cabin from flux radiation. Interesting how no one covers this.
explain!
Musk is discouraging hydrogen cell bcz of his company getting sunk plus the paid mind makers are with him, these companies can easily provide hydrogen cars but the oil mafia is not letting this happen
@Milan Swoboda thanks for info, so that means there are some other things hindering hydrogen usage
@shoaib saleem Sure, Global production of H2 by source: about 48% Natural Gas, about 30% from Oil/Naphta, 18% from Coal, 3.9% Water electrolysis, remainder other ( eg. Biological,....). Primary uses of the global H2 produced: 55% Fertilizer (ammonia), 25% Petrochemical, 10% Methanol, remainder various other e.g. Metal treatment, transportation,...etc.
@Milan Swoboda can you please give specific example!
@shoaib saleem as stated above they are the primary producers of Hydrogen so instead of Gasoline they sell you the Hydrogen which had been extracted from Natural Gas or Oil.
@Milan Swoboda how do they love hydrogen!
honestly im happy to drive an electric car, but why do they all have to look so shit xD
yo wtf put the mask back on *AHEM* TELSA
Hydrogen is more logical. Charging batteries still requires fossil fuels no matter what you say. Not to mention, the materials required to make batteries are more dangerous than fossil fuels by far! Not to mention, battery driven vehicles are dependent on environmental temperatures.
What do you mean "no matter what you say". Here in Norway we have close to 100% of electricity produced from hydroelectric power, a renewable energy source. So I would say here it makes quite a lot of sense...
From 1:00 to 1:22 which is [ unfortunately ] as much time as i have at this moment ; " A Self Contained " Hydrogen system " is " the Best " thing that could be offered to the buyer ( from the buyers perspective ) !! They; 1) Use only water, baking soda And Electricity, 2) The " Hydrogen & Oxygen " " Produced Is,
" On Demand " ! & " Never Stored, " meaning Less danger ! 3 ) It's Cost per mile / AND Range is incredible ; Many miles per gallon / Range of a 1/2 Liter could be ? ( is it 1,000 miles ). & 4 ) No Pollution; the exhaust consists of Steam !! That's from the " Buyer's View "
The Commercial View is to make Continuous Money even if the means is a Hydrogen Filling Station . Which IS Incredibly Stupid !!
Keep their Lobbyists Defeated, Unless of course you don't mind being their victims ! Forget Them !!
Problems with all this is we go from one pollution to an other we all put solar panels on our roofs and drive electric car. We will cause same or more pollution as electric vehicle batteries take tonnes of CO2 and other gas to be manufactured used and recycles meaning we are worse off we will use more of the world resources as well. Tonnes of CO2 to male solar panel
Tldw : hydrogen for the rich, batterys for the poor
Your information on hydrogen is in accurate , I ran hydrogen in my car for over 100,000 miles , I used electrologists , about 2 liter's of water in a hho generator under the hood , had full power and ran great once I ajusted the carb
Your Skill Share site should take bitcoin... I would have bough a subscription if there was a bitcoin option
Cost of batteries and fuel cells?
I am going to make an electric personal mobility device for $2,000 was that top speed of 55 miles per hour
The minimum wage here is around 8 Euro. Waiting about for a battery to charge is simply too expensive. How much will it cost to install millions of charging points? Rotary engine hydrogen power doesn't have all the fuel cell battery problems. What does Elon Musk use to get his rockets into space, I don't think it's battery power.
@Milan Swoboda Half an hour of anybody's time is worth money, simple. You won't need millions of H2 stations because people will only stay 5 minutes as opposed to 3 hours. The locations already exist where we currently get diesel and petrol. My 9 year old diesel car still runs, my 9 year old laptop battery no longer holds any charge.
Not getting your connection with minimum wage & waiting time for charging too expensive, please elaborate.
As for cost of millions of charging points, I would say significantly less than millions of H2 filling stations.
H2 rotary engine OK nice and good but it still will be far less efficient than BEV or FCEV and I hope you're stocking up on rotor seal kits.
We know very well it's not possible to utilize ONLY renewables to charge the batteries.
Secondly the increased mass of Vehicle in respect to increased range capability is a show stopper.
Thirdly the rare Earth metals required to manufacture the batteries are finite in quantity on the Earth's crust. Eventually we will be forced to return to Fossil fuels or Hydrogen.
@edozie sylvester checked the periodic table and Google and find that there are mainly Alkali Metals, reactive non-metals, post transition metals and transition metals in modern day EV batteries. I looked for a ¨rare earth metals" and could not find any reliable reference to that but could find solid references to a REE ( Rare Earth Elements ) Category which apparently is a historical Category name that does not really indicate that the elements in that category are truly rare. I than took the elements in that category ( under the assumption that it is really the REE category you are referring to ) and compared them with materials that are used in EV batteries and came out empty.
So I'm still confused what you are referring to in your OP and ask again that you please give me an answer to what materials you are referring to. Thanks in advance for your detailed explanation.
@Milan Swoboda check your periodic table or Google it.
Please elaborate on which rare earth metals are used in the manufacture of batteries?
Marvellous illustration of fuel cells and batteries production and their efficiency
"The Truth about Hydrogen as told by a Tesla fan!"
So many mistakes, always *against* hydrogen or *for* electricity, can't be by accident....
They've used Hydrogen fuel cells on the Space shuttle...
TRASH VIDEO irish pussy narration. might as well be a valley gurl
Electric cars are not free from causing 'pollution' including CO2 emissions, they just pollute at the location of material production, manufacture and power generation rather than where they drive. The production of electricity from non-polluting means is minuscule. And electric cars use more energy than fossil fuel powered cars both in operation and whole life.
which is a 1 time small output, operational pollution is several orders of magnitude more.
how fking stupid do you have to be to think EVs take more power? what do you think is powering drilling rigs, oil refineries, oh right ELECTRICITY which could be used to charge the EV direct.
He doesn't add in the extra energy needed to make the battery. A battery pack adds 50% more energy to the manufacture of the vehicle. Moreover current batteries last only 250,000 miles and then need replacement. He doesn't mention NH3 as a hydrogen carrier which eliminates the need for hydrogen compression. All in all hydrogen is still competitive with battery electric.
you fool, he is explaining production and transportation of the 2 types of fuels, not manufacturing costs, also if you are including battery production costs you need to include H2 storage and refinery costs which certainly does not help H2s standpoint.
There are electrolysis systems that produce 1 kg of hydrogen pressurized to the working pressure needed for vehicle use for only 55 kwh of electricity. This allows for the use of renewable electricity, off peak should be very cheap. Also, the battery vehicle is heavier, and will consume more kwh per mile.
Ok so 55 kWh for a kg of compressed H2 and a Toyota Mirai drives about 100 km with that kilo.
BEVs nowadays require about 15 to 20 kWh per 100 km which means that you could charge and drive 2-3+ BEVs for 100km with the same electric energy that a single FCEV requires for 100 km.
As for weight, I recommend that you compare the curb weight of a Toyota Mirai and a Tesla M3 long distance, both have similar driving range then come back and tell me which is heavier.
Would it make sense for cars to be a plug-in hybrid, but with hydrogen instead of gasoline. We have plug-in hybrids today. Currently, plug-in hybrids allow people to do most of their commutes on the battery, which they can charge from their home. When the battery isn't able to power the vehicle, the internal combustion engine kicks in. Unlike most hybrids, plug-in hybrids let you charge the motor's battery via an electrical cord from home. Many people who drive plug-in hybrids find they don't fill up with gasoline for months because they rarely drive long distances. Most of their driving is done with the electric motor.
Hydrogen is expensive, but if you rarely burn it, then it doesn't matter. The battery is the primary source of power, and the hydrogen fuel-cell is the backup. Wouldn't that solve the range-anxiety issue and also be a good way to offset the cost?
Like this: www.greencarreports.com/news/1119935_mercedes-benz-delivers-first-f-cell-plug-in-hybrid-fuel-cell-suv-in-germany
Lies , lies and more lies! Liquid hydro carbons are the best and least polluting in total energy needed to produce and manufacture .
Oil is a natural and renewable resource.It is not fossil remains.
Heli Mark that’s just not true (as most scientists agree). Oil is renewable it just takes millions of years for it to renew and we have used lots it already. If we assume that all the electricity that powers an electric car is from solar panels or wind turbines then sits 100% green. This is almost always not the case but as the national grid gets greener as coal and fossil fuels are removed we get closer to it being 100% renewable. Petrol/desil is one of the worst ways to power a car, but it’s the easiest so it’s the one humanity chose. Also oil is fossil remains. That’s literally what it is, it’s old rotten animals that have been buried and put under such high pressure and temperature that some funky stuff happens and they become hydrocarbon
Go to 8:21 to see a summary of costs.
Wait three hours for charging? Forget it! Plus, the recycling of hydrogen vehicles and components is much more green than batteries, and much lighter, as well. Hydrogen takes you further - faster. Hydrogen vehicles can only get more efficient. Conversely, unless chemists can come up with a better battery, electric vehicles will cause much more pollution when battery disposal is needed.
@maisto That would require charging stations to stockpile a variety of batteries. In addition, batteries discharge over time and the quality and wear of the replacement battery may be different. Finally, the manufacturer would have to design the vehicle for a quick-release battery, which would be more costly and encourage theft. It would be great in the future when standardization of batteries and anti-theft devices were prevalent.
If batteries were replaced at stations with charged ones, that would be a game changer.
Corporate greed has usually slowed progress to milk profits. They don't care about progress, just profits, be it in developing new form of tech, or maintaining the status quo.
They need to consider plasma electrolysis for H2 production IMO.
nuclear hydrogen production problem solved.
We can efficiently create Hydrogen and remove landfills while creating zero pollution. It's called the Kim Reformer and it converts all waste; from household to industrial and medical waste, to pure Hydrogen. Then you can either convert that into electricity utilizing gas turbine engines; create fuel cells or sell Hydrogen directly.
We can produce Hydrogen efficiently all over the US as filling stations and power plants. Eliminate landfills; except for nuclear of course. Working with Mexico, trying to work with Canada and the US right now.
Tell your representatives to use the Kim Reformer and contact Seth. There is a good chance I've already contacted them. If not, send me their contact info and I will.
And the pricing is the same or lower than Hydropower 0.03kW. - Last thing, we actually give the power plant to municipality after 20-30yrs so it's an asset.
@pr5owner They are made and I am trying to propagate the technology. Give me $56m and I'll build a 30mW facility anywhere. We could already build one in California except for an antiquated rule that you can't burn more than 10% trash, even with zero emissions. We are working on changing that law so we can build out the facility. Just because you are unable to comprehend science, politics, intricacies of global agreements, etc... doesn't mean the rest of us have the same hindrances. Oh yeah and do something very simple called Google the "Kim Reformer" or go to the Wiki page, if you can understand the science your next comment will be I'm sorry for being ignorant and attacking you instead of doing a simple search and I will now help you by contacting my local and state representatives to help propagate this technology.
You won't believe this either, but we have technology to take waste plastic and turn into composite railroad ties that last 100 years. One railroad tie saves 1/4 of a tree and its *carbon* *negative*. After the 100 years is up, you recycle into a new RR tie. Need $2m and Brown Financial will give us another $8m to draw down on. Unless you have $10m to invest. -- I'll make sure to send you an invite to the green tech crowdfunding site so you can donate $100 and make a difference by financing your own RR tie.
Everyday I'm working to make a difference, what are you doing besides saying that technology doesn't exist when it clearly does. I guess LED's don't exist either right? So the work we are doing replacing sulphur street lamps with waterproof, lightweight smart LED's isn't a real thing either?
In case you don't know this; new things are being invented everyday, just because you don't know about it, doesn't change the fact it exists.
yeah you keep believing that, why dont you start making these so called waste recyclers and make profit?
Key points:
- both batteries and hydrogen fuel cells are more efficient than petrol/diesel
- batteries produce pollution, fuel cells do not
- batteries have limited range, fuel cells do not
- batteries take a long time to charge, fuel cells do not
- batteries have a short lifespan, fuel cells do not
No brainer.
all your points of BS, if you truly think what you say is true you are a short sighted fool that has no clue how manufacturing works
The elephant in the room is all of your data presumes the electricity comes from renewable sources. Most of the electricity we use today does not come from renewable sources. It uses natural gas, coal or nuclear sources to produce electricity. Please add that into your equations for cost of kilowatt hour and CO2 output. This would produce a more accurate measure of cost. Renewable energy sources are not viable for industrial scale use at this time and should not even be a factor in this discussion.
Perhaps some day we will invent the technology to do so. A great day, by the way. In the mean time it does not work and shouldn't be used in the promotion of one source over another..
@Heli Mark Of course the taxes levied on fossil fuels will have to be replaced somehow. I wonder where they will come from? Hmm, I'm sure they will find somewhere to get them.
Plus the tax that will need to be added to electricity to compensate for the loss of revenue from petroleum! I would guess 100% tax
skillshare probably has a 5 year lifespan. statement about self driving cars is nonsense. Even youtube is what? 15 years old? and now it's ruining itself.
I agree that right now scarcity of market production is driving costs of hydrogen cell technology. I have seen modern vehicles using the hydrogen to drive a turbine instead of relying on pnm. It looks like hydrogen will be the same cost or similar to petrol with the same or better range depending on tank size. I have long commutes and I live in a country that requires long distance driving.. Hydrogen sounds great.
Is it possible to eventually get the processing plant down to a size that we can get one per community, ideally one per house. Seems doable.
People seem to forget that petrol stations were once a novel new technology with only a few cities having them.
Despite petrol being a very mature technology petrol costs are going up!
One advantage of communities having their own hydrogen station (depending on cost) hopefully would be an independence from a certain amount of government control and price fixing, and also a reduction in shipping costs, possibly the need to invade otber countries for oil.
There are people already making hydrogen from waste. Seems like a good idea if it is not prohibitive energy wise.
I like the idea. Time will tell. Best fuel source in the world doesn't solve the problem that there are just too many people.
No mention of gasoline comparison, please put it all on the table. This video looks suspect!!
he did mention it, gas is just terrible trash compared to H2 and EVs
The Efficiency of a gasoline powered car is about 30%, just for the Motor alone.
Has consideration been given to using ammonia for fuel cells? It is easy to make NH3 from H2 and NH3 can be transported and stored far more easily than H2.
It is more likely that an ammonia leak would cause them to move away immediately if not sooner.@Simon Liubicevas
If an ammonia powered car gets a fuel leak, people will die from just standing too close. Pretty dangerous
/Get rid of vehicles all together....but we know that thats not going to happen voluntarily, humans and industry are not willing to change the way they currently are living and doing business, , humans are addicted to owning privately own cars etc.. its the illusion of freedom that privately own vehicle provides...human are short sighted, violent, egotistical and arrogant animals whose nature could not be changed and were ultimately responsible for every failed civilization, either through warfare, the deforestation and destruction of the surrounding environment. Roads and freeways require huge swaths of land to be cleared and developed.... as i said before “ humans lack the will to change*
They are currently living in denial, and believe that technology will save them without changing how they are living and moving around... peace/
Just need one of those cars that run on water. Sadly all the water run car guys were murdered.
Yeh I remember that some 60 years ago. Just add a very small pill to a tank of water and it gets converted to petrol!!! How brilliant that would be. I guess the pill must contain loads and loads of carbon and what happens to all the oxygen in the water when the water is converted to a hydrocarbon? Generally complete changes like this need tons and tons of energy.
You completely failed to address the cleanest fuel of all -H202
@BD Bailey to oil companies
@BD Bailey you're kidding - Big Oil brings us war , pollution , global warming and crooked politicians . The cleanest fuel is non flammable and can restore oxygen to the atmosphere . No wonder oil companies.l don't want you to know the name of it . Say it if you know it ?
Highly dangerous stuff though.
13:00 you sneaky! You threw that advert in there like a boss! Nicely done! 😉
My main question is, what about using hydrogen to power an internal combustion engine? A hydrogen powered engine would be more efficient than a comparable hydrocarbon engine when it comes to how much you should be able to carry vs. oil, as H has 3x the heat per lb
But with an engine that's really not what you're looking for. So, what about using hydrogen to generate heat instead of powering vehicles? That would reduce the amount of oil we're using in places where H would, "make more sense", I guess? Again, we're getting into production costs and everything, but wouldn't it be worth looking into? I would really like your thoughts.
Great video, btw!
Keep in mind that solar power production is not as renewable as many make it out to be. Now before you start crying and whining about this comment, go search the process of manufacturing for the solar panels and the waste created from that process. If you're still not convinced, then you can cry and whine all you want.
I feel like our human knowledge is limiting us severely. Can you imagine, aliens are looking down on us going "They're STILL trying to figure out hydrogen energy? Papapapapapapaphh what savages!"
Hydrogen will make Australia so rich so soon. And Morocco bit latter
Viva nikoli
the home made hydrogen x battery/ solar is far less expensive fitted to cars thus far.has to be far cheaper..profit is the motive and focus behind this report
that's with the 260 times energy H has over electric with both being from free souses, H would still be viable and clean in a internal combustion , you are not taking battery disposal and creation which is extremely toxic
thank you very much for making this video. I'm a teenager that loves to learn new things of this world had to offer and duty as a human to take care of this earth we are living in. Love your video, i just randomly came upon this and made me open my mind to bigger opportunity in life. Keep up the good work and you have another supporter aboard :)
I didn't hear any mention of how explosive hydrogen is. If a car accident ruptures the tank it would wipe out anything or anyone close to it.
Batteries will never have the range of hydrogen.... Because of this business with longer ranges will have more Intressest in to hydrogen... We will see a combination of fully electric... And hydrogen...
what a stupid thing to say, in 2020 the longest range H2 vehicle is the nexo at 752 km and the tesla roadster has 1000+ km
if you take today's ranges the mirai has a 500km range and the tesla model s has a 600km range
for H2 to have good range you have to push the compression beyond 800 bar which is ridiculous, that can blow up and entire house
Nice! Rating comparisons in Watts/Kg. Seeing as how H2 is the lightest element on the periodic table, it's gonna look pretty good! How about rating it in Watts/$, or Watts/Watt of production power required?
3:34 In this image, why does hydrogen not have a significant difference in distance compared to electric vehicles if the specific energy is drastically higher in HFCs?
Because H2 has a low energy density by volume. The Mirai dual cylindrical tanks can hold a combined 5kg of H2 but have a volume capacity of over 120 liters and just the tanks weigh in at 87.5kg, Cylindrical tanks are necessary due to the high pressure the H2 is at but that makes it difficult to place them in the vehicle without intruding into the passenger space while still being safe and that will limit the amount that can be carried plus you have the conversion efficiency of the fuel cell stack which doesn't help the matter.
The one truth i care about is that i can get H2 from a fuel station in minutes. Electric cars take ages to charge.
You should also mention that the batteries themselves change. We have many new battery types just around the corner, some with much higher capacity and current. So it may take only a few minutes to charge at a station using a high amp high voltage supply. But yea at home charging is slow. But then again do you see anyone having a gas station in their home? no. I fully believe that electric cars will overtake their old gas powered counterparts in both range and charging time. And the natural(yes NATURAL) transition of economies will be in full swing. So to those protesting the oil industry and pipelines; newer technology is what will push them out of the picture, not you signs and chants. And it is better for the economies as well. Gives time and revenue for formally oil based economies to transition to the newer stuff. For example Canada moving on the Lithium and other metals. The middle east moving toward tourism and businesses hubs(like Dubai). It is easier to transition from one economy to another then it is to shut down an entire economy hoping to rebuild it from scratch. You can't build with nothing.
Good and fair analysis, Thanks
You forgot to explain how these cars are produced as well as how the majority of electricity in the us is currently produced.
"Man, this show is the biggest load of rubbish I ever heard in my life" - Bo Didley
This is so obviously being highly paid for.
This is not just cheap advertising, it is a joke in a very bad taste.
Ask Japan.
Just don''t forget that hydrogen currently is coming from CH4 and not water. That's why fuel cell would be a great win to oil companies.
TLDR: Thermodynamics shows that Hydrogen is a terrible choice as a fuel source when compared with electricity.
Electric cars... limitation and control of movement for a one world government.
how fking dumb could this comment possibly be? you can generate your own power to move your car not relying on massive corporations which are ran on government subsidies.
Why not use electrolysis and hydrogen production using the energy from the alternator. Hybrid technology should work with each other.
@Thaopao Yang Yes the alternator charges the battery if needed while the engine is running, however the alternator will take energy from the running engine to generate the electricity to charge the battery . More electrical load on the alternator also means that it will take more energy from the running engine plus due to efficiency losses it will take more energy from the engine than the electricity it will produce.
The electrolysis is not very efficient so you will require far more electrical energy to produce the H2 or HHO than you will get from the Hydrogen you've produced. After that you run an combustion engine with the gas you've produced but the engine is also inefficient to convert the chemical energy from the Hydrogen to kinetic energy to move the car and run the alternator.
so it's a death spiral of inefficiencies thus will not work
@Milan Swoboda similar to how it charges the battery while you drive, cant it be used to power electrolysis to produce hho as a secondary fuel source?
Electrolysis to produce Hydrogen = inefficient. Please be a little more specific on "using energy from the alternator"?
Great job of showing why hydrogen fuel cell systems are not the future. Anyone who claims otherwise does not understand the importance of efficiency when it comes to using renewable energy sources for fuel. Bottom line: It would be a colossal waste of resources to try to make fuel cells work especially with renewable fuel tech as the primary hydrogen process fuel source. Big oil is heavily subsidizing all facets of fuel cell because it's the only way gasoline/petrol remains viable with battery powered cars. Sure gas turbines can produce electricity but the Sun and wind will soon eventually make that option obsolete as the renewable tech matures. Big oil knows this hence why it wants fuel cell cars to take off. It's a dead end.
What bunk this video truly is. All one must do is replace their regular spark plugs with specially designed spark plugs that convert every cylinder into a Hydrogen generator IN REAL TIME. In other words the special spark plug uses the 10,000 volts being delivered to it by a coil pack to separate Hydrogen and Oxygen from the water being delivered to the motor from the fuel tank by electric pumps AND detonates it in the same 1/100th of a second with NO electrolyte. The only conversion your engine needs to use this system is to adjust its timing to top dead center of zero as Hydrogen will explode 200 times faster than gasoline or diesel. This system has already been tested and is 100% successful and reliable. Why then fool around with fuel cells which are only 82% efficient when special spark plugs are 99% efficient? The maker of this video is either unaware of this or he is pushing his own agendas for the slim market for a company who is clueless. Either way they are behind in the latest technology. WAY behind … .. ..
Citation needed please..
how long do the batteries last?
Your comparison does not consider the weight benefit of hydrogen. There is a huge efficiency loss for electric vehicles simply because the car is heavier. I am also curious how the efficiency of a plug in / hydrogen hybrid looks like. Small light battery for maybe 50km and a fuel cell for long trips. With mist of the trips below 50km and a total weight below a long range electric car, it might be a viable solution.
Look up the curb weight of a Tesla 3 long range and compare it with the curb weight of a Toyota Mirai, both have a similar range. Furthermore FCEV already has a battery to help with efficiency and a bigger battery will not help with their obesity problem.
Both have nasty booms, I propose flintstone style vehicles.
great analysis!
wow, total lack of economic sense. Prices come down with growth. Look at literally every other tech innovation. Also, as the grid transitions to renewables (and hopefully nuclear) the environmental impact argument also gets less and less relevant.... meanwhile, mining lithium continues to poison the water and consume huge resources. Dude. I thought you were smart.
the problem is that EV car use lithium (non renewable resources). EV is the answer for the near future, but Fuel cell is the answer for the distance future.
So fuel cells and hydrogen storage tanks only use renewable resources ? that's news to me
Wait what? No! putting energy into batteries CANNOT BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CANNOT BE 100% Efficient!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LAW OF CONSERVATION OF ENERGY!!!!! JESUS You are supposed to be engineers! This sounds like propaganda bullshit now. PLEASE Take into account things like LAWS of physics? I know it's hard and all but they are LAW's you can't just skim over them.