Are Disney Villains Going Extinct?

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  • Published on Mar 1, 2017
  • SPOILERS FOR MOANA!
    Disney Animation Studios has seen an uptick in quality and consistency in the last five years... as well as an uptick in red herrings and plot twists replacing the traditional villain narrative. Did the era of the Disney villain end a long time ago?
    Aforementioned cranky twitter: twitter.com/thelindsayellis
    Patreon: www.patreon.com/loosecanon
    Facebook: facebook.com/thelindsayellis/
  • EntertainmentEntertainment

Comments • 2 972

  • Dávid Kertész
    Dávid Kertész 14 hours ago

    Disney movies becoming more and more conformist I think. It's like they are going for the sub zero MPAA rating. Although that could be a general phenomena. It's like everyone is too careful about what we can show to kids.

  • New Order Future
    New Order Future 2 days ago

    >puts picture of Hitler while saying real world villains
    >proceeds to put unrelated image text on the picture
    Is Lindsay Ellis REDPILLED??

  • Cady Fitzgerald
    Cady Fitzgerald 3 days ago

    Not enough of these comments are talking about Scar, who is an absolute icon of a villain, and no one can tell me otherwise.

  • Alice Pope-Terry
    Alice Pope-Terry 3 days ago

    Gigantic is probably more so going to be a big brother little sister story. After all, the giant in the poster looks like a child and jack looks around 15-17ish (however Moana has the proportions of a 5-year-old so what am I to say).
    But I'm guessing it's going to be a story where she takes Jack and keeps him as a pet. He then tries to escape because he's scared for his life. But he sees that she's just a scared little girl in a messed up household (like absent parents or other similar child-friendly reason) so he'll decide to stay.
    We'll then see more of her life, maybe her Dad will be cold and distant after a human killed his wife, leading him to be emotionally abusive. This will prompt Jack and little miss gigantic relationship to slowly develop. Jack'll become a big brother type figure to little miss gigantic and little miss gigantic will protect Jack from her human-hating/eating farther.
    Then the father will find out about Jack and try to kill him. This will push him and his daughter further apart and make her even more scared of him. Which will give Jack the chance to talk to him. Then they'll be a big conclusion where the giant stops hating humans and becomes a much much much better dad to little miss gigantic.
    Not the best story but one with a lot of potential rich conflict and a relationship that hasn't really been given that much attention in Disney movies. However, my outline is a little lacklustre in the second half of act two; but that's nothing new for me.

  • Hecatonicosachoron
    Hecatonicosachoron 4 days ago

    I hope that black-and-white characters go extinct altogether. They fuel horrid ideologies. Hardly appropriate to be teaching that to kids. Yes, the didactic dimension is really important and it doesn't matter if your average idiot finds that lame. So Disney villains going extinct would actually be good news. But I am not that optimistic.

  • fataleflare
    fataleflare 5 days ago

    I have the Let Me Be Good To You pin!

  • merlinthetuna
    merlinthetuna 8 days ago

    With regards to Hades, I don't think it's _quite_ as bad as you're framing it here. I definitely agree with your premise from the Hercules video that the movie is a collection of interesting parts that don't add up into a coherent whole. But along the lines that Herc himself is Superman + Rocky, Hades is _Oedipus_ .
    In classic Greek tragedy tradition, Hades's plan would go off completely without a hitch if he would just _let go_ , but his own attempts to subvert the prophecy ultimately fulfill it. (Insofar as that scheme makes any sense to begin with. Work with me here.) Under that lens, it makes perfect sense that Hades is at least aware of Hercules's identity crisis; he's been spying on the kid for a while. And he has some interest in Herc being just a Regular Guy, because the prophecy only cites Hercules via his identity, not by some feats of strength or skill he'll contribute to the battle itself. Hercules is special because he's Hercules, so the key is to make being Hercules not special.
    If Hades could resist the urge to pop in and be a total dick to Herc on the eve of the battle, he could just route the Titans around Thebes and take Olympus; it's only his own mustache twirling that draws Herc into the conflict in the first place. The fact that they don't _really_ know each other is a key part of making that thematic element work. It could definitely have been executed more effectively (again, as you covered in the other video), but the idea, I think, is sound.

  • Icestorm projects
    Icestorm projects 10 days ago

    Why is the name and description of this halfly in Finnish

  • Doll-ish 17
    Doll-ish 17 10 days ago

    Mother gothel is an example of a modern villain that could fit into any classic disney villain

  • Suzette C.
    Suzette C. 10 days ago

    Gigantic was canceled, and meanwhile, we're getting Frozen 2 for 2020 *sigh*

  • LeAnn Kennett
    LeAnn Kennett 11 days ago

    I don’t Think the Disney villains are going extinct. Te Kah from Moana was a departure from your traditional villains in only the fact she was redeemed in the end when a confident and empowered Moana gave her back her heart. We still have Dr Facile, Hans, mother Gothel as most recent that come to mind.

  • James Belnap
    James Belnap 13 days ago

    Since when is Mother Gothel not well loved? She's my favorite Disney villain.

  • 1917th BenisBrigade
    1917th BenisBrigade 14 days ago

    This video's title is in german on my phone, what

  • TheDizeazedKiller
    TheDizeazedKiller 14 days ago

    >Stupid
    Treasure planet is probably the best done character driven movie disney has ever produced. Tis anything but.

  • Conglomeration
    Conglomeration 15 days ago

    "I think we can probably safely assume that Gaston isn't going to get much of a makeover or a tragic backstory"
    [laughter from the future]

  • Jonathan Craven
    Jonathan Craven 15 days ago

    Yeah, have a more nuanced view of good vs evil in the mainstream does sound exasperating. Who'd want kids growing up believing bad actor's think they're going good, all in the pursuit of some trend... Sorry, but you get to keep the classic Disney villians; those movies still exist. I hope my kids grow up scoffing at the notion of evil. Some people do bad things some do good. And you don't need sugar coat that for good story telling.

  • Ieago
    Ieago 15 days ago

    I dunno, Disney's villain population seems pretty healthy. They might be more subtle now. There no more Medusa from The Rescuer, willing to use a child slave or The Horned King from Black Cauldron. Keep in mind that Maleficent, for all her tragic backstory was totally okay with revenging herself on the family that violated her by killing their child almost 20 years after the crime. And Hans while was a great usurper, but Elsa and Anna's parents are the real villains of the movie. After all, they never told Elsa what they new of her powers and commissioned a pair of manacles to go over her hands if she got out of control. Speaking to your subversion point, I agree. I feel like Disney's directors are so wound up in subverting audience tropes lately that they are forgetting that you need to tell an interesting story first. Frozen was probably the best-balanced movie Disney has produced in that regard.

  • backroomgentleman
    backroomgentleman 15 days ago

    I think Silver from Treasure Planet may be my favorite Disney villain. He is a good person at heart and truly cares for Jim, but he's also cruel and brutal and also NOT really a good person...he's got a lot of depth

  • Bobby Arteaga
    Bobby Arteaga 16 days ago

    Is putting Willy the Giant from “Mickey and the Beanstalk” in the new Gigantic movie something Disney would do? Because I wouldn’t put it past them

  • Lauren Nicole
    Lauren Nicole 16 days ago

    Where do you get those pins

  • Lauren Nicole
    Lauren Nicole 16 days ago

    Why haven’t I subscribed yet 😰 I’ve been binging all day

  • Lauren Nicole
    Lauren Nicole 16 days ago

    Was Ursula really a villain? She just gave the girl a choice and she signed the contract

  • Lauren Nicole
    Lauren Nicole 16 days ago

    Villains bully and society frowns on that now

  • Zelda Hylia
    Zelda Hylia 16 days ago

    I know this video is a bit old, but by now I feel like Disney's 'unpredictably' has become way too predictable. I feel like the problem with the old movies they were trying to move past was that the villains were great but the heroes were cliche, now the heroes are great but the villains are cliche. I want good villains back!

  • minoliti
    minoliti 17 days ago

    you were right, they gave Gaston a sad backstory

  • ShantyIrishman
    ShantyIrishman 17 days ago

    Moana’s villain was her father.

  • tina wyatt
    tina wyatt 19 days ago

    I don't think Disney villians are going extinct, they are just evolving.

  • Ray Last
    Ray Last 19 days ago

    I mean...Snape was pretty marketable, even though he was also a complex character. So maybe it's not so much the style as it is the actual writing. The villains are becomign less interesting because they are less interestingly written, not because they are three-dimensional.

  • Ray Last
    Ray Last 19 days ago

    I mean...Snape was pretty marketable, even though he was also a complex character. So maybe it's not so much the style as it is the actual writing. The villains are becomign less interesting because they are less interestingly written, not because they are three-dimensional.

  • Ray Last
    Ray Last 19 days ago

    Even back in the day, Woody Allen fell in love with the evil queen. Now of course, Woody Allen was a creep, but he was probably on to something.
    Like that time he explained to his more sophisticated friends that in the case of Nazis, bricks and baseball bats were probably a smart response.

  • MilesBellas
    MilesBellas 20 days ago

    0:40
    Shiny = classic

  • TheWarmotor
    TheWarmotor 21 day ago

    Oh shit I remember where I've seen you now, you were the dude in Video Game High School! You make a pretty girl.

  • Ivy Edgington-Rice
    Ivy Edgington-Rice 21 day ago

    I've been bingeing your channel today and you really hate that "see how I glitter" scene.

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    The main problem, from my viewpoint, is that all animation studios are more focused on trying to be relatable to people, rather than telling stories with universal themes. I don't mind that some stories are not good vs evil, but I am kinda ticked that the studios are telling generic stories with no originality anymore. Yes, I like variety in stories, but if you try to out-complex each other with "teen tropes", you are losing out on the mature audiences that would have loved to be able to see something deeper in the stories, but cannot, due to the catering of stories to the lowest denominator for all animation features.

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    Like we've not had enough Jack and the Beanstalk stories already. *sigh*

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    Alex Jones fear dream false flag sheep. Now that's a mouthful. :)

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    12:04. Manipulative future-ex. :)

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    11:11. Hey, it had power ballads. What did you expect? XDD

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    10:56. Uuuhhhhmmm.... at least he's not a one-dimensional character? ;)

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    10:19. I thought it was fulfilling your whole potential as a human being? XD

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    5:50. Character identity isn't the only problem. A lot of animation studios are going after the almighty dollar as their main motivation, which is why you get so many soulless, cold animation movies that are technically decent, but lacks that factor X. It's cash grabs, left, right and center, and artists who dream about creating the next big thing are left to employers who care nothing for art and would rather settle for the short term gain rather than the long term benefit.

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    Treasure Island in Space as a concept was pretty decent, but IMHO they pretty much screwed that genre over. We will probably never see any "sailing ships in space" again, simply because it was fumbled so badly. Now if you really want to talk about a slam dunk that went completely off the rails, see Valerian.

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    Apart from plot twists, you also get plot holes. I mean, the deep dark ones... ;)

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    04:17. It also featured Angelina Jolie, so it's was a beautiful hot mess? XD

    • Marinus van Zyl
      Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

      And of course, any of the Fanning sisters also brings a good solid feel of character to any movie they play.

  • Marinus van Zyl
    Marinus van Zyl 22 days ago

    The problem with The Descendants 1 and 2 is that the kids of the villians turn nice. Which might make for a feel good movie, but it means no next gen villians for people to sink their teeth into. :)

  • Adaline Harbert
    Adaline Harbert 23 days ago

    I wish people would give more credit to King Candy. Of all the twist villains, his twist made the most sense and was the absolute best. You knew he was the villain from the start, but WHY he was the villain was just brilliant.
    Like, think about it: this guy is the exact opposite of Ralph, a "game protagonist" but with a completely villainous personality that is willing to sacrifice everything and everyone for attention, which is actually a very important thing for game characters in this world since no attention basically means death. After sacrificing his own game, he infiltrates and takes over a different game, manages to do so without ANYBODY knowing, rules that game for 10+ years with nobody even suspecting, when suddenly here comes Ralph threatening to unintentionally undo all King Candy's hard work. King Candy masterfully manipulates Ralph to do what he wants, and would have succeeded had Ralph not seen that Vanellope was actually supposed to be in her game and wasn't a glitch.
    Also, the build up to King Candy's big reveal is great, since we're introduced to his concept early on (we just don't know it yet) with the whole "going Turbo" phrase. When its later explained, suddenly "Turbo" carries more weight to it. King Candy is clearly the villain, but we never understand why he does what he does, until the big "AHA" when his motivations are revealed: He is Turbo, the scary guy from before, and he couldnt afford for the heroes to succeed, lest he be discovered, tying it all into a beautiful neat bow.
    I just think he was a really great villain, maybe not as entertaining to watch, but far superior in deeds and mystery for sure than other villains.

  • bakuman2
    bakuman2 24 days ago

    The only thing here that upsets me is calling Kronk a villain. Man is a perfect being who just wants the world to enjoy his spinach puffs. And to get the nod from Papi.

  • Land Before Time 75
    Land Before Time 75 24 days ago +1

    Surely Yes.

  • K Håland
    K Håland 25 days ago

    Were you at Disneyland with Rantasmo?!

  • Sean I
    Sean I 26 days ago

    The last decent, and I truly mean DECENT, Disney villain was Mother Gothel.

  • Sarah Hamilfan
    Sarah Hamilfan 27 days ago

    2:32 What about Mother Gothel? She's pretty classic villainy!

  • MyArtJourney
    MyArtJourney 27 days ago

    5:08 Keane, as in Glen Keane? The head animator of Ariel, you missed a great opportunity for a pun XD

  • Overactivedreamer
    Overactivedreamer 28 days ago +1

    THEY SEE HOW I ✨ GliTTeR

  • Daniel Steffee
    Daniel Steffee 28 days ago

    Disney's clear coded villains are still around! Heck, over the last twelve months we've gotten Disney villains played by wonderful actors like Cate Blanchett, Michael B Jordan, and Josh Brolin--the villains didn't disappear, they just got moved to Marvel~

    • Jasmine Crawford
      Jasmine Crawford 16 days ago

      I only saw BP and I found Kilmonger to be a sympathetic villain w/ a (the norm nowadays) tragic backstory to match. I mean I want straight up unabashedly evil villains with little to no redeeming qualities at all except the charisma bc I adore mustache twirling unadulterated wickedness 😂.

  • Teresa Escobedo
    Teresa Escobedo 28 days ago

    Disney should take you as consultant.

  • All Might, The True Symbol of Peace

    I mean, there's a certain YTP youtuber who might argue Tamatoa is the greatest villain ever...

  • WonderWoman
    WonderWoman 29 days ago

    Treasure planet is the best Disney movie. Fight me

  • Mykasan
    Mykasan Month ago

    i'm already tired of the new disney movies, i don't find them memorable.

  • Dustin Kick
    Dustin Kick Month ago

    1:53 adorable

  • Marissa Nielsen-Wilkinson

    Moana is just super propaganda ugh
    Couldn’t stand it. 🤦‍♀️

  • Ryan Paye
    Ryan Paye Month ago

    10:19 Why is she sounding so confused? It’s not remotely hard to understand.

  • Calvin Cosmos
    Calvin Cosmos Month ago

    Do you think it had anything to do with modern Disney being catered towards an older audience? Hence the complexity of character rather than the simple binary good vs evil simplicity

  • VT Felton
    VT Felton Month ago

    I see you pulled out Starscream for this one.

  • Arkthus
    Arkthus Month ago

    Hasn't Gigantic been cancelled?

  • Mackenzie Rose
    Mackenzie Rose Month ago

    This was a great video but why was Ratigan pulled up on her computer the entire time?

  • 1987Liono
    1987Liono Month ago

    I miss Disney villains. Scar was my favourite villain just so evil. I hated him and he got me personally invested in the story. I wanted Simba to kick his ass. Disney are getting lazy now.

  • Lobster Feng
    Lobster Feng Month ago

    "Disney is really into subverting expectations." And this was before The Last Jedi Lindsay called it.

  • Frostare
    Frostare Month ago

    I... still don't understand how the concept of "Disney Villains" came to be as much as... say, the "Disney Princesses" concept. But the folks at Disney SURE know that AUDIENCES love a good villain. Why else would the Villain Wiki be so popular? They love their attitude, their drives, their catchphrases, their defeats...

  • Zack West
    Zack West Month ago

    Going back to just doing classic style Disney villains would be a bad idea. We can have BOTH strong villains and less developed ones to give more room for the lead(s) in films from a given studio. Variety is the spice of life, after all, and saturation can be staved off by... changing things up regularly. Shifting between two extremes is inevitably going to be predictable.

  • Skylar Beilschmidt
    Skylar Beilschmidt Month ago

    I'm probably that 1℅ of people that don't like the crab from Moana.

    • Vits Vicente Torres
      Vits Vicente Torres Month ago

      I don't hate him (it's hard to have any strong feeling about a character who's only in 1 scene), but I dislike his song.

  • Joey Wolf
    Joey Wolf Month ago

    You keep talking Lindsay, but I can't hear anything because daddy Ratigan keeps giving me the look.
    Yes I'm furry trash don't @ me.

  • TheDeathmail
    TheDeathmail Month ago +1

    I think it should be "Classic Disney Villains" rather than just calling them "Disney Villains" since the villains still technically exist...

  • WildFyreful
    WildFyreful Month ago

    You say Dr. Facilier's motive in the movie is greed, but I honestly have to disagree with that. Greed is merely a catalyst to what he really wants: control and power. He wants all of New Orleans to be under his control ("All of New Orleans in the palm of my hand" as he says), and that way his supernatural "friends" have a means of control over the city and a source of power to boot through the deals he makes, so he is never in debt to them. In that vein, he's actually in the same line of motivation as Ursula.

  • terdragontra
    terdragontra Month ago

    jeez you really dislike treasure planet

  • King of the Void
    King of the Void Month ago

    So much for Gigantic.

  • Василь Керімов

    I only just noticed: Ursula, ... and George C Scott.
    Gold!

  • TheBuenaventura93
    TheBuenaventura93 Month ago

    Mother Gothel?

  • Erika Alexandra Parra Bernal

    Just watched this video and I loved it!!! I'm so sad we don't have any more REAL villains.... Now days it seems like disney is doing a psychological analysis over every character, and we need to feel sorry and compassion for the sad past of a villain instead of embracing the fact that what make these characters great is that they are BAD.... Period.. Pure evil..... I wish for more CRUELLAS, JAFARS and MALEFICENTS (but the original one... not that Angelina Jolie one....)

  • TheBanditofvideos
    TheBanditofvideos Month ago

    Treasure Planet is best

  • Shawn Elliott
    Shawn Elliott Month ago

    Wow. Those glasses really work on you. And not just because they correct your vision!

  • Virtual Stoa
    Virtual Stoa Month ago

    The name of the villain in _Wreck it Ralph_ is _Turbo._

  • Silas D
    Silas D Month ago

    People actually take this stuff so seriously? Guess not all of us have real problems.

  • Xk8rsx
    Xk8rsx Month ago

    The only real pure black and white villain I can think of is Frollo. He’s manipulating, controlling towards Quasimodo telling him he’s ugly and deformed, the road is cruel, wicked blah blah. He hates everyone around him, he hates his own people who bend to his will, only because he gets his soldiers to beat them up. He almost kills a baby in the beginning simply because he didn’t like the way he looked. He hates anyone who is different. He would kill to get what he wants.

  • Andrew Shelestov
    Andrew Shelestov Month ago

    omg are you dating a soyboy?

  • MsJackJack71
    MsJackJack71 Month ago

    Villains need to have purpose in the story, by todays villains, (looking at it evolution wise) always have that element to overcome or something to attack or stop the protagonist so that the protagonist can grow. Villains, throughout time can be human without showing that they *needed to be villains* to stand out or pop, when in a storyline plot

  • Pridera
    Pridera Month ago

    Evelyn in Incredibles 2 felt like a well written villain to me,,,,,, I love her

  • Tuxedo Toad
    Tuxedo Toad Month ago

    Um did you hear that gigantic‘s production was cancelled.

    • musicaltheatergeek79
      musicaltheatergeek79 Month ago

      GIGANTIC was canceled in October 2017. This video was uploaded 8 months prior, in February 2017. You expect her to be psychic?

  • Merritt Animation
    Merritt Animation Month ago

    And now we have the Incredibles 2. The villain in that is predictable from the moment they come onscreen.

  • Emil Sørensen
    Emil Sørensen Month ago

    I don't think the Hunchback (I forgot his name) was looking for identity. He was looking for community. That's not internal at all, especially since what keeps him from community isn't internal (like the Beast in the Beauty and the Beast.)
    I think Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame appeals to me viscerally because my autism kept me alienated from everyone around me for all of my childhood.
    I could be reading myself a bit into the story. But I don't think it's fair to say Frollo is the reason hunchbacks are shunned in the 1800's.
    Meaning, I think the happy ending has more to do with a change in the community, which is why a big theme of the movie is about justice. The fact that the Hunchback is a great guy doesn't seem to be a character development like it was in the Beauty and the Best; He starts out that way, which again puts the onus on the community to accept him, not on him to resolve Frollo's brainwashing.

  • Nathan Lawrence
    Nathan Lawrence Month ago

    BFG
    Big Fun Giant

  • mikaela Edwards
    mikaela Edwards Month ago

    THERE'S NOT ENOUGH VILLAINS FOR ME TO LIKE THAT I COULD GROW CROPS WITH MY OWN TEARS!! IT'S DEPRESSING DISNEY!!!

  • RFK Must Live
    RFK Must Live Month ago

    Gigantic a big big love

  • Phantom's eye
    Phantom's eye Month ago

    Atlantis is Disney and had a great villain

  • Hannah Smith
    Hannah Smith Month ago

    I think a big part of them moving away from older disney villains is that they're moving away from, "bad guys are ugly, ugly outside, ugly inside". A lot of the newer villains are normal looking or even pretty because evil comes in all shapes and sizes, you can't wrap it up in an ugly flashy package and call it a day.

  • cloudkitt
    cloudkitt Month ago +1

    I saw Frozen pretty late, on an airplane, long after everyone had gone insane for it. When Elsa has her big number and it looked like it was going to turn into a villain origin story, I was about to be really impressed. After the "twist," I became a lot less excited about the whole thing...

  • Lunar Obsession
    Lunar Obsession Month ago

    Mulan was by far my favourite princesse cuz she's a warrior princesse and the romance isn't the focus of the story

  • Karla Arizpe
    Karla Arizpe Month ago

    I loved Treasure Planet it was good!...I still do not understand why it flopped though if i thought it was actually quite good.

  • Beast Of Edelwood
    Beast Of Edelwood Month ago

    "They're such ex-boyfriends"
    Well, now I know other people think that too

  • Kharizmah
    Kharizmah Month ago +1

    Coco... If you love classic Disney, that is a much watch. The villain also shows up toward the end though and that is a plot twist.

  • That Awkward Girl
    That Awkward Girl Month ago

    talking about a lack of villains and you just pretend the shit show that is Brave doesn't exist?