Technics SV-P100 - Digital Audio on VHS tapes - in 1981

  • Published on Jul 10, 2020
  • Before the CD came out, you could record your own digital audio - on video tape.
    Have a look at a HiFi unicorn, the Technics SV-P100 - the first integrated digital audio tape recorder.
    In this video you'll get a demo and hear about the history of PCM recording onto tape.
    This all took place years before the introduction of DAT in 1987 - (Digital Audio Tape).
    If you’re interested, here's a video all about DAT:

    00:00 Intro
    02:34 A tour of the machine
    04:38 Cutting-edge for 1980
    08:14 Getting around the tape
    15:53 A potted history of PCM
    20:30 A quick look inside
    22:04 Digital in and out?
    26:43 What about VHS HiFi?
    28:38 Wrap up
    31:17 14-bit play-out

    All music is from the TheXvid Audio Library.
    I Have a Reservation - Tracktribe
    So Smooth - Danny Kean/Doug Maxwell
    The Jam - Slynk & Mr Stabalina
    Over Time - Vibe Tracks

    Special thanks to the following invaluable online resources.

    Q) What would happen if you tried to play a normal video on the SVP-100?
    A) It’s mentioned in the video at 26mins 21secs - but you can see for yourself at 24mins 20secs just after I turn the machine on.
    You can see here what the output from the SV-P100 looks like with no tape playing. B&W stripes. That's the only video output the machine will produce. It’s either this screen with digital data or this screen without. Also the sound would be silent, because there no analog audio capabilities on the SV-P100.

    Q) Could you dub the digital output signal to a normal VHS machine?
    A) It might be possible but also consider how Technics only recommended one specific Pansonic U-Matic machine as a suitable dubbing device even though at this point Panasonic also made a whole range of VHS video recorders. This is likely because a normal VHS recorder couldn’t record a sharp enough signal. I believe that U-Matic by this point had around 330 lines of resolution as opposed to approx 250 on VHS.
    The composite video output circuitry in the SV-P100 was specially configured for the digital video signal transmission. It’s highly likely that it will output slightly more resolution than a normal VHS machine would be capable of capturing. The SV-P100 can however capture that resolution on its built-in VHS tape recorder because the video recording circuit isn’t standard, it’s monochrome for a start and no doubt it’s able to record a slightly sharper black and white video than a normal VHS video recorder could.
    Perhaps a decent 1990s VHS machine might stand a better chance than a 1981 VHS recorder, but even if it worked perfectly - it’s all academic as the only recordings I have on PCM VHS are just copied off an MP3 player. It would be easier to copy those MP3 files instead. If I had some rare original PCM VHS tapes that I wanted to back-up, it would be better to try and capture these with a video capture card to get an off-tape backup. Alas though I don’t have any PCM tapes other than the ones I’ve recorded myself from MP3s.

    Q) Have you heard of ADAT? That was also on VHS
    A) Yes I have - that came later - this video is about a device from 1981 - The *First* integrated Digital Audio Cassette Recorder. That's what makes this unique. You can only be the first, once.



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    ----------Outro Music-----------
    Over Time - Vibe Tracks

    ------Outro Sound Effect------
    ThatSFXGuy -
  • Science & TechnologyScience & Technology

Comments • 2 852

  • AuroraMills
    AuroraMills Year ago +1283

    Congratulations on a million subscribers Matt. If I may, you've done more over the years than simply review equipment; your videos have brought a sense of wonder back into the world. Heart felt thanks.

    • Floss Man
      Floss Man Year ago +2

      Quite agree. I had a couple fingers of whiskey and toasted my monitor to you, Matt. You're brilliant!

    • No One
      No One Year ago

      For the Firt time ever, I have just subscribbed to a channel.

      Just think in the 90's and before in the dinosaur days, A subscription meant you had to pay a price close to Ten dollars, and then wait in the mail for a magazine.

    • Jimmy Hopkins
      Jimmy Hopkins Year ago

      Wonderfully said one of the only channels I have notifications on for

    • Not More Games with Nick Berry
      Not More Games with Nick Berry Year ago

      Gusti Ramadhana Ditto x 1 million congrats sir.

    • Gusti Ramadhana
      Gusti Ramadhana Year ago +2

      Cheers for 1 million subscribers matt!!!!

  • Jean Emar
    Jean Emar Year ago +127

    I usually watch your videos to see entertaining pieces of technology and novelties. But I realized today you're in fact a proper historian, almost archeologist, documenting with every devices our modern electronic history.
    Thanks for all your work ! Future generations won't learn History in books, but here with you on TheXvid.

  • Chris Bishop
    Chris Bishop 8 months ago +26

    Matt, this is a very exciting find - probably my favourite. Early PCM technology was pretty amazing at the time, and this Technics machine was most definitely cutting edge.

  • RAM
    RAM Year ago +10

    I know it's a bit late to say this but congrats for 1 Million! This channel got me into retro and hifi tech and I've been a subscriber for years since then. Thanks Matt. ♥

  • Tio Manny's World
    Tio Manny's World 11 months ago +3

    Great show, love watching all the things you find and always presented in a well thought out and entertaining manner.

  • GTOger
    GTOger Year ago +66

    re the VHS HiFi, when I worked at a small radio station in the early-/mid-90's, we used 6 hour VHS tapes for automation. The plus side is we could put up to 6 hours of programming on a single tape. On the downside, of course you had to record 6 hours in real-time. So it wasn't like "real" automation, but it did allow us a cheap way to "time shift" what we put on the air.

    • Elijah Watson
      Elijah Watson 9 months ago +2

      Did you get a lot of vehicles towed when you worked at the radio station?

    • deadmeat1240
      deadmeat1240 10 months ago +6

      A lot of Radio stations used HIFi VHS for recording Air Checks of entire shifts. Particularly Talk radio. This was before digital was financially viable for most in the 80's and 90's. Easy to keep and catalog a huge library of shows and much cheaper than equivalent Reel to reel tape. Main advantages being the cost of the tape and recorder and the sheer length of each tape. A very cheap solution.

  • Remix and Karaoke
    Remix and Karaoke Year ago +1

    Congratulations on the million subscribers, Mat! Well deserved! Thank you for all of the wonderful videos! I look forward to more explorations of audio/video device rarities and other gadgets being shown here. Peace be with you, brother. Be well.

  • Gabriel Godwin
    Gabriel Godwin Year ago +4

    Congrats on breaking the 1 million wall!
    I have to say, this my favorite video from you ever. I was completely unaware that the VHS (standard) format ever had a beast like this. You've truly captured an origin story for the eventual S-VHS ADAT multi-track machines that a, not insignificant, number of recording studios and home artists used in the 90's. ADAT XT was 18bit, then the XT20 was, of course, 20 bit.
    Thanks a million for this one!

  • Charlie M
    Charlie M Year ago

    Congratulations on 1 Million subscribers, Mat! I've been watching your channel for many years, it's been a pleasure to see it grow and to learn about thoroughly interesting bits of kit that I would be unaware of otherwise.

  • Seiskid
    Seiskid Year ago

    Thanks so much for the work that you do here Mat. You've brought so much enjoyment to so many people. Congratulations on the million!!!

  • JT Michaelson
    JT Michaelson Year ago +185

    Look at you with a million subscribers. Congratulations. Well done

    • VauxhallViva1975
      VauxhallViva1975 8 months ago +4

      Yes, quite a milestone!!! This video is very interesting. I remember being on an FM radio station back in the 90's, and they used a HiFi VCR on LP to record the live program for archive. LP gave six hours of HiFi stereo audio per E180 VHS cassette. The audio performance of the HiFi VCR's was exceptional, and better then any reel-to-reel recorder of the time, and could record for much longer then even the best R-2-R machine at the time. When EP came along, you could get up to NINE hours of crystal-clear audio on a standard 3-hour E180 VHS tape. Certainly the video was poor at EP on an E180, but if all you want was the audio.......

    • zahari iliev
      zahari iliev 10 months ago

      Zzz zzz zzz

    • Connor Strothman
      Connor Strothman Year ago +2

      I was wondering if anyone saw that!

  • ExBenzi2
    ExBenzi2 Year ago

    Congratulations to 1M subscribers, Matt!

    Been watching your content for years by now and let me tell you something: Very few other channels come even close to your great attention to detail and your meticulous research. I love the calm and ‚educative’ way you tell the story of each device.

    If I’m correct, the first video I watched on your channel was the one about the Curta calculator. A marvel of pre-WWII engineering. Do you still own yours?

    I’ve learned quite a lot about old HiFi equipment and amazing - sometimes forgotten- tech over the years. My all-time favourite video of yours is the one about compact cassette tapes and Dolby A/B/C/S. Learning that decks with such low levels of hiss (or rather white noise) were made back in the day blew my mind.

    Here‘s to the next million!
    Keep up the good work.

    PS: I miss the puppets ;).

  • BilisNegra
    BilisNegra Year ago +3

    What can I say... Thank you Mat, just got to the end of this and I'm getting emotional by the moment. What a gift of an episode for us viewers, congrats on hitting that mark.

  • cdcollura
    cdcollura Year ago +12

    This is amazing. Thanks for showing this piece of vintage tech. I remember the Sony PCM in 1990 a friend of mine used in his band. He "digitized" the audio to and from a separate Betamax unit via the video in / out. Cool stuff and quite costly in that era. Congrats on the 1M subscribers!

  • TheMountain564
    TheMountain564 Year ago

    Congrats for the 1 million subs Matt! I first watched your channel back in 2015.
    It's really hard to me to think this recorder is almost 40 years old! Technics really were accurate on that futuristic desing. If I would watch that recorder without knowing nothing about it, I would though this machine would be from 1989-1990.

  • Anders Enger Jensen
    Anders Enger Jensen Year ago +737

    Congratulations on reaching the big 1.000.000 mate! And to top it of with my starting brand of keyboards.. Technics, that's pretty neat! If I had known this earlier, I could have made a MIDI file version of the outro music for you to play on the MT-90S... maybe later! Let's get you to cool 10.000.000? ^_^

    • Anders Enger Jensen
      Anders Enger Jensen Year ago

      freeculture But you can’t play chiptune music on the MT90S or any GM MIDI-module, that’s the point. If I want accuracy, I’d just go for my main studio and make something like a clone. The point here would be to use a limited sound source and make an approximation because the very crude «resolution» would be the goal itself.

    • freeculture
      freeculture Year ago

      Rather than "midi", try "chiptune". As midi can mean anything since its just a protocol for passing data, could sound synth like or indistinguishable from real life when using the proper samples.

    • Ziginox
      Ziginox Year ago +1

      I have an old Technics SX-PR804, makes me sad that they exited the musical instrument market after it and the KN7000 :(

    • Ainz ul
      Ainz ul Year ago +1

      @Anders Enger Jensen Aaaah makes sense. I thought I was stuck in a reality shift.... Kinda disappointed now.

    • Anders Enger Jensen
      Anders Enger Jensen Year ago +7

      Ainz ul Patreons get early access. :)

  • Ken Brickley
    Ken Brickley Year ago

    Fantastic getting to one million! Loved this video and I think like most watching we wish we’d kept some of the tech we owned once upon a time. Love the cassette and mini disc items the most as I was always a big fan of great quality portable music. Keep up the great work you are doing and indeed, in the future others can also long for this cool tech that you can see operate as opposed to the clean stuff today with hardly and moving parts. Even though I love that as well!

  • Greg Wayne
    Greg Wayne 8 months ago +2

    Excellent video as always! I see others have mentioned the ADAT machines and "SuperVHS" formats that were used for a short time in recording studios. I actually have a session on 16 track digital audio on Super VHS still. I have had it converted of course to Wav. files. I had it converted by as far as I could find "The only person left in my Small Canadian City" whom owned a working ADAT machine. I may have some of the details mixed up as far as the machine and what I recall but basically it was a 16 track digital multi tracking studio and my band were very leery of using it for our music at the time as we had been used to working with 2" tape in the studio and full analog everything up until then. As well the industry was by that time talking about the lack of warmth and how digital wasn't "As pleasant to the human ear" as Analog was. Now we have actual noise adding VST3 units or other types of ways of making it sound like the "Good Old days" LOL.

  • Caesar Best
    Caesar Best Year ago +5

    Hearing that 40 year old machine play the outro actually got me in the feels. You're doing God's work Techmoan.

  • grrrumble
    grrrumble Year ago

    Congratulations Matt. I discovered your channel a few years ago and quickly watched through your back catalog of quirky and vintage audio equipment, and loved every minute. Your videos are top quality and your collection of interesting hifi gear is envious. I wish I had it, but if anyone *should* have it, it's you.

  • aserta
    aserta Year ago +126

    11 years. Feels like a moment. Congratulations on reaching the million mark. One of the most genuine and interesting channels on this platform, a digital museum, with an excellent curator.

  • Bloqk-16
    Bloqk-16 Year ago +200

    @Techmoan . . . this is off-topic from this YT subject, as I want to express my appreciation with how you *Title* the descriptions of your uploads in an honest and fair way with your YT posts. I say this as I've noticed the escalating amount of _click-bait_ among YT channels of late. I'm becoming much more selective with what I view on YT; with the *Title description* of the YT posts being a major part of that selective process. YT posters that use alarmist adverbs, or alarmist words in general; and with brightly colored large fonts with YT thumbnails wordings, I'm less inclined to click on it as compared to past years.

    • Some One
      Some One 4 months ago +1


      SADES URBEX 8 months ago +2


    • Godfrey Poon
      Godfrey Poon 11 months ago +8

      ^ yep, *this* ^

    • Railgap Esoterica
      Railgap Esoterica Year ago +5

      ^ THIS ^

  • Alexandru Tataru
    Alexandru Tataru Year ago +1

    Matt, most importantly these videos will keep a record on you and your enthusiasm for us to watch over and over again for tens of years. With you any review or showcase turn into a story. Keep up the good job!

  • James 73
    James 73 Year ago

    Wow! Congratulations on 1M subscribers and for this wonderful video! This was an extremely well done video that thoroughly covered this groundbreaking device. I remember seeing this recorder when it came out and I am sure I read the reviews in Audio and Stereo Review magazines and lusted after one of these, although the price was a non-starter for me at the time. I also enjoyed the historical aspects of this story as well. I had no idea PCM was invented in the 1930's!!! Google searching is in my immediate future to see what more I can dig up on this topic. I mostly just watch your audio videos but do tune in to some of the others. I remember I caught on of your videos about some sort of automobile video recording device. I had no idea there were such things! After this Technics video, my second favorite video of yours was the one where you tried to recreate a scene from some TV show that had a portable Sony analog reel to reel in it. Great work on that episode and there are too many more to list, but here are a few I've enjoyed, the MiniDisc coverage, the RCA tape cartridge, DAT tape, wire recording, Muzak (I always wondered how it was accomplished) and on and on. Congratulations again on 1M subscribers and I hope you will hit 2M subscribers some day!!!!!!!!

  • Bill Mankin
    Bill Mankin Year ago

    Congrats on 1M Subscribers! For a long time you have "ticked all the boxes" on showing my favorite things - audio components great and not so great, old technology, repair and tinkering, and explanations of the science and tech behind gadgets. Also love your thoughts on how the markets and consumer behavior have affected the tech evolution. Please keep it up, I have appreciated the entertainment immensely. This video was a nice tribute to your accomplishment. Cheers!

  • Miloš Anđelković
    Miloš Anđelković Year ago +575

    Digital audio actually has a noise floor and it is defined by the amount of bits. Fewer bits means more rounding errors and normally these would produce an audible artefact, but there is a trick that turns them into nice white noise: dithering. Basically, you round up or down randomly, and that removes repeating patterns that humans preserve as artifacting. But yeah, with with few bits, the noise is loud. Another way to look at it is that the number of bits tells you how loud can you play the audio with the noise remaining at the same volume.

      UNITED STATES I R I E 4 months ago

      @Techmoan can you repair my Technics home stereo ?

    • D. Zobe
      D. Zobe 9 months ago

      @Ferocious Mullet that is a insane set up! Hówd théy sound?

    • MaximRecoil
      MaximRecoil Year ago

      @tarstarkusz "Stereo under mp3 doesn't really work like that, so I've been told. It only records the difference, not 2 separate channels. That would make 320, really 160."

      MP3 can be either "joint stereo" or just "stereo" (2 completely separate channels). It depends on the encoder settings. Joint stereo is the default with LAME, which is probably the most commonly used MP3 encoder.

      With 2 completely separate channels, 320 kbps would mean 160 kbps for each channel. With joint stereo, when used with music that doesn't have much stereo separation (which is the case with most modern music), you get more efficient use of the available bitrate, because it doesn't have to duplicate the parts that are identical on both channels.

    • Alden Zenko
      Alden Zenko Year ago

      ​@tarstarkusz Maybe, but I bet you could tell the difference between 128k and lossless formats (FLAC, CD, WAV are all the same) or vinyl. You mentioned the noisefloor or EMI from your computer sound card, if you can hear that then I bet you can hear mp3 differences up to 192k or more. I guess it depends on the song. 64k mono is fine for old single mic recordings with limited dynamic range, but 64k stereo (maybe half the bitrate per channel) for an orchestra is completely indiscernible. HK 730 is a beast, love it!

    • Alden Zenko
      Alden Zenko Year ago +2

      @tarstarkusz Might be time for some new headphones, Sennheiser 500 series or Grado CS series are pretty good in the $100 range. Difference between V0 or 320 and 192 CBR MP3 is night and day, not just the high frequencies but also slew rate and psychoacoustic model, that weird bubbly sound. FLAC vs 320 MP3 is harder to tell on cheap headphones except in a very quiet room with your favorite songs

  • Bald Scorpian
    Bald Scorpian Year ago

    Congratulations on your 1,000,000 subscribers! In the 1980s, I used to watch Towards 2000 and Beyond 2000 to see what tech of the future would be like. Now I watch your channel to look back on all the technology that I could usually never afford to buy when it was released, Thanks for taking the time and going to the effort to create such an entertaining and informative TheXvid channel. Looking forward to many more episodes going into the future.

  • burendasan
    burendasan Year ago

    Congratulations on reaching 1 million subs! It is well deserved. While recording audio on VHS seems clunky to us know, when you consider that this played and recorded digital audio before the CD, this machine is fascinating. It’s capabilities remind me of the minidisc.

  • Klingon00
    Klingon00 Year ago +9

    I'm fairly certain my college radio station had one of these in the early 90's that they used to record all their radio shows. In fact I remember seeing it there and thinking it was odd when the guy who ran the program mentioned they used a digital recorder onto VHS. Audio quality was excellent from what I recall.

  • Adam SWL
    Adam SWL Year ago

    Well deserved with the 1 Million subscribers Matt!!
    I have learned so much from your channel and seen so many devices and formats that I never knew exsisted.
    It is quite incredible how you have managed to source some of the equipment you showcase. Well worth the effort!
    By the way, it would be interesting to see the Walkman version of the VHS DAT ;)

  • - ̗̀A Bacchus ̖́-
    - ̗̀A Bacchus ̖́- Year ago +278

    *I love Technics design from this era - looks fairly modern even now*

    • Michel Tremblay
      Michel Tremblay Year ago

      Technics of that era were of high quality, the only thing I have against them is their weird color that did not match the black units from all the other companies.

    • david ryan
      david ryan Year ago

      Very well said, loved the Technics equipment. 🙂🇮🇪

    • Haroon Thantrey
      Haroon Thantrey Year ago +3

      My Technics SL-7 still looks incredibly modern, the giveaway is when you pick up the damn thing. It's incredibly heavy!

    • mafulque
      mafulque Year ago +2

      @MrDuncl and the industry is back to using brushed aluminum again!

    • MrDuncl
      MrDuncl Year ago +5

      @Herr Bönk In the early 1980s they were only just moving away from silver brushed aluminium panels and fake woodgrain.

  • Ze Carlos
    Ze Carlos Year ago

    Parabéns pelo milhão de subscritores !!!,Mas mais importante ė o seu trabalho de informação,que nos trás recordações e outras vezes autênticas novidades de equipamentos que nem ser quer sabia que existiram excelente canal.Thank you Sir

  • Mr Grif
    Mr Grif Year ago

    Congrats on the 1 Million Matt. Youve been a huge influence on my own tech support business, so much so that I've moved into restoring and repairing a lot of old retro tech, turntables, tape decks and even the odd laser disk player included.
    Keep up the amazing work and here's to the next million.

  • banpeinet
    banpeinet Year ago +3

    Congratulations on the 1M subscribers! And thank you for such a fantastic video!
    I'm sure this is mentioned by someone else in the comments as well, but I'd like to say this about the 14 bits versus the 16 bits. With pcm encoding the bits are used to encode the amplitude. As it's an electric signal it will be divided into levels of bits. For 8 bits that's 256 levels which give you a metallic signal when played back. For 16 bits that's a range of 65k. For 14 bits that's a range of 16k. The difference between 14 and 16 bits is hardly noticable for the human ear, while the difference between 8 and 14 is

    • Alexander Thomas
      Alexander Thomas 27 days ago

      Looks like banpeinet's message got cut off early, I guess it ended like “is very noticeable.”
      The difference between 14 and 16 bits might be noticeable when playing a recording that has very high dynamic range, with the volume knob turned way up to uncomfortable levels, in a perfectly silent room or with good headphones. The most silent parts would be more noisy in the 14 bit recording. However, in all normal practical situations at reasonable volume, this extra noise would be masked by background noise present in the room.

    • yahnsolo
      yahnsolo Month ago +1

      was about to say the same thing. Remember also DAT on LP mode that would be 12bits @32khz and Nicam with 14bits also @32khz. And yep, that is true 14 to 16 bits are the same to the human ear, while 12bits we can start to hear some light differences

  • Alexandros A Lavdas
    Alexandros A Lavdas 6 months ago

    Wonderful video! Like so many of your videos, it's not just entertaining, but it's also educating, and it is valueable as historical documentation, as you rightly say. I was thinking it would be fun to try to record the digital signal onto another VHS tape through the composite output, and see if the recording is any good!

  • singhcr
    singhcr Year ago

    As always, thanks for making these. They exude passion and wonder and I always enjoy them.

  • Kenneth MacLeod
    Kenneth MacLeod Year ago

    Congrats on 1 Million Subscribers. I remember very well the Technics SV-P100, I wanted one, but the cost was so far beyond what a humble college student could afford. Back around 83 or 84 this unit was used in the background as a very expensive prop @ MTV. I remember a couple of interviews that VJ Mark Goodman did and there was the SV-P100 in plain view...

    I still own my 1st CD Player, A Technics SL-P10. It still plays most Redbook CDs. It needs some servicing, as the tracking mechanism sometimes skips.

    The SONY PCM-F1 was discussed in your video. Peter Gabriel used one of those for recording his Security tour live back in 82. I remember seeing it while glancing at the sound engineers console before entering the floor of the venue where he played. I'm sure the Peter Gabriel Plays live disc used many of those recordings.

  • J DeKong
    J DeKong Year ago

    A big well done Mat on hitting one million subscribers, very well deserved, my colleague & I who are avid fans still have no idea how you are able to get as much info as you do on these obscure products, either way its much appreciated by us tech geeks :o) looking forward to the next installment as always

  • Leandro laporta
    Leandro laporta Year ago +2

    Amazing equipment!, Thank you for showing this to all of us, I never ever seen it in magazines (or anything else) here, it will be well taken care of by you, I enjoy your videos very much, keep at it, thank you

  • LMacNeill
    LMacNeill Year ago +160

    I used to use VHS Hi-Fi to record 6-hour-long music "mix-tapes" for parties, so no one would have to mess with my audio equipment during the party. Hide the amp and VCR in a locked room, and run the speaker wires out under the door into another room. Press play and you wouldn't have to touch it for another 6 hours. It was great!
    Oh -- and congratulations on hitting 1 Million Subscribers!

    • therealpbristow
      therealpbristow Year ago +3

      I pitched an idea to a hospital radio station I worked on - that only did original programming in the evenings - for an overnight/daytime service, using a 6 hour long-play VHS tape (different one each night) of BBC comedy programmmes from the vast range that were by then available on cassette (many of which I had bought!). The machine I wanted to use had an auto-rewind feature, so the plan was to cut each tape to exactly the right length (about 5hours 56 minutes, ISTR?) so that the programme would start repeating exactly 6 hours after it started, and we could tell people during the links what to expect at what times: "At 3am, 9am and 12 noon, you can hear an episode of 'The Navy Lark' from 1962..."
      The station turned the idea down, thinking it wouldn't interest enough people. A few years later, the BBC themselves launched Radio 7, with a 6 hour repeating programme of mostly classic comedy shows... It's still going strong, now as "Radio 4 Extra" =:o\

    • OneRoomShed
      OneRoomShed Year ago +1

      alex zorba They had hifi stereo on a lot of units back then. I had (and still have) a SONY SLV-575UC. It was perfect for recoding audio on video tapes because it had adjustable (manual) audio recording level controls and digital VU meters. So long as the tape was of decent quality, the music always came out sounding great. A lot of the of the time I used T-160 tapes on SP mode. That was about 2hrs & 40 min of nonstop recoding at the best quality (in true stereo). If I was just making a casual longplay mixtape, I would then use the slower speeds to get more time from the tape. Also they did have portable units back then too. Panasonic had a few units like this in the early 80's. The main part that took the tape would run off a large battery. This was because the first consumer video camcorders did not record directly to VHS tapes. They had to be wired to a VCR. My father had one of theses and I remember him lugging this huge camera and had a small VCR on a shoulder strap just to make home movies. Shit was expensive back then too.

    • OneRoomShed
      OneRoomShed Year ago +2

      mieu honestly most of the time I basically used it like a DVR. I would make the recording on the VHS tape and end up mastering what I wanted to keep it on a high bias cassette tape. I only had a couple of audio music mix tapes on VCR tapes and they were meant to be played until they were worn out. Funny though because I still have most of my VHS collection and about 1/3 of they don't have labels on them anymore. I always popped that tab out so I couldn't record over sometime I want to keep.

    • trxbloke
      trxbloke Year ago +3

      @EtTubeBruTube Head switching errors were the only weakness of HiFi VHS. It was helped if you had one of the few recorders that actually recorded no pictures if you put them into a dedicated Audio mode. The video signal is recorded over the HiFi track and can partially erase it. Having no video gives a nice clean signal. I had a philips machine that recorded audio only, but it took an age to load the tapes.

    • nico
      nico Year ago +1

      @OneRoomShed Indeed, and since there is no video on it, you forget what was on it when the label sticker wears out, and you overwrite it with something like NHK Live News of 9.11

  • Subzero Arctics
    Subzero Arctics Year ago

    Hey Techmoan, really love your videos and this one is perfectly timed. I'm actually in the middle of doing a project of converting VHS tapes to digital files. However, the VCR I have shows these weird black streaks on white colors. Do you have any guidance what would be a good VCR (brand?) to purchase?

  • Augie Ben Doggie
    Augie Ben Doggie 10 months ago

    Fascinating. Thanks for covering this. My dad had so many things growing up wish I'd held on to after the next 'big leap forward' happened. LED watch, TV watch, Watchman, etc. I miss him.

  • CaptainDangeax
    CaptainDangeax Year ago +2

    Thank you Matt for sharing this rare piece of Japanese engineering. Playing digital audio via a video recorder is indeed tricky because, unlike music playing non-stop along the tape, playing sound inside video required to pack the data in the visible part of a "video" stream (576 lines over 625, and 4/5 of the horizontal line length). The Technics CD player with the visible vertical CD in it is gorgeous !

    • Vink
      Vink 27 days ago

      Presumably they wouldn't have to worry about packing it into the visible part of the signal, because it was never intended for display on a TV. I'm no expert on this, but my understanding is that even the vertical retrace is encoded on the tape so the VHS player doesn't need to generate any sync signals, and this is why the picture rolls on a deteriorated tape. So presumably they could use the whole thing and get a continuous audio stream which would simplify things a bit.

  • daveincambridge
    daveincambridge Year ago

    This channel is one of the absolute best on TheXvid. Seriously, Mat, well done!

  • satan165
    satan165 Year ago +207

    The feeling when you binge watch a show and you are sad when you’re done- that’s the feel I get from the full outro. Always loved it and missed it. Knowing where the audio came from makes it 1000x better. Then history of BBC and NHK developing PCM was riveting. This is the top notch, top shelf techmoan content id pay to sit in a theatre to watch. Congrats on 1M- I will always support you in any endevour. Thank you for so much content, it’s a special thing to sit down and watch, better than any cinema or TV. Just......thank you.

    • Eliza
      Eliza Year ago +1

      thanks satan

    • Gadgetonomy
      Gadgetonomy Year ago +4

      I know what you mean! I love the little digital sound right at the very end of these videos, I sit through the credits just to hear it. Then you know it's going to be another week at least for the next video :(

    • Don't Check my Channel
      Don't Check my Channel Year ago


  • Glenn Wilkshire
    Glenn Wilkshire Year ago

    Congratulations on hitting the million. I have lost count of the amount of times I have watched you channel, thinking, maybe I will watch, just to see what the episode brings. And then ended watching all the show, absolutely intrigued and captivated by what I have seen. Also brings back so many memories of my younger days buying new hi-fi items, on a regular basis and just thinking of the great times I had. Thank you and good luck on your next million.

  • GenderqueerGirl
    GenderqueerGirl Year ago

    Love this video! I like what you said about documenting for people now, and in the future. Just shows why we watch your videos. A unique piece of tech, explained and discussed, by a great creator and narrator.
    Thanks for everything you do, and congrats on the 1 million subscribers.
    Heres to the next million and beyond!

  • Oliver Dill
    Oliver Dill Year ago

    Love all of your videos. This one was particularly interesting to me. It reminded me of a VCR i once owned. I don't remember the Brand (I'm leaning toward Hitachi) but it was a regular full-feature VHS Hi-Fi unit. The twist is it included a button that made it a stand-alone ADAT that recorded exactly as this Technics does. I'm hoping you can locate the make and model (or models). I know if anyone can find out what this unit may have been it would be you! Keep the great work coming!!

  • Bryan Liguori
    Bryan Liguori 5 months ago

    So interesting, thanks for the great video!
    With those digital in/out plugs - kinda like how an 80s tape drive, with compact cassettes, could transfer (and receive) data that's obviously digital but over normal audio cables using essentially "analog" signals.

  • Matambale
    Matambale Year ago +31

    Heartfelt congratulations on reaching 1 million Mat - and thank you for providing the fascinating material that has *earned* you so many subscribers. Some would consider this esoteric (hah!) - and very few would have the energy and intellect to explore the history of hi-fidelity with such zeal and detail We're very fortunate you're as much in love with this as we are, and that you have such a natural gift for presentation.

  • Julian Langan-Fox

    Hi Matt, what a fantastic video. A huge amount of work but absolutely important to record the history of this milestone machine. I had no idea Technics made such R&D developments such as this.. it's changed my perception of their company history significantly. So much good information in this video.. it's going into my 'repeated' viewing , along with many of yours.. such as the automatic turntable one.. Top Shelf!

  • Kevin Kennedy
    Kevin Kennedy Year ago

    Congratulations on ONE MILLION SUBSCRIBERS!!!!!! You are an absolute legend, and I've learned a lot through your videos about dead formats that even I haven't collected! Cheers!

  • Pineapples Foster
    Pineapples Foster 26 days ago

    That feel when you remember binging all of Matt's videos and think you're caught up, them realize that was over 2 years ago and there's SO MUCH INCREDIBLE 'NEW' STUFF ON THE CHANNEL!
    Happy belated congrats on 1M, you've earned every one of us. 📼❤️🍍

  • Matt Green
    Matt Green Year ago

    Congratulations on the well-deserved million. Did I see you welling up at the end? 😊 I only discovered you at the beginning of lockdown and I’ve been completely addicted to your channel. Your dry humour and love of tech are infectious and your production values are fabulous. Thank you.

  • Solvalou
    Solvalou Year ago +26

    Well deserved 1M Matt, amazed it didn't happen sooner with your level of quality uploads.

    Here's to 2M! 🍻

  • Nicolas Montmarquette

    Congratulations Sir, 1M suscribers! Well deserved, well crafted videos. Thank you for documenting retro tech!

  • AZ Math
    AZ Math Year ago

    Thanks for posting. Never knew they brought out a product like this. Technics obviously decided to combine a VHS deck with a PCM encoder/decoder. A lot of money to pay back in those days just to record 2 channels of audio..
    But after you're discovery that the digital I/O is really just composite video in and out, then can it be used to record video? But then you still need audio. So what they should have done is include a video/audio recording option with a suitable standalone tuner.

  • Bobby Brown
    Bobby Brown Year ago

    Congrats on 1 Mil subs, absolutely stoked for you. Been watching since 150K, keep pumping out the great content Matt!!

  • Mistah MegaManFan
    Mistah MegaManFan 7 months ago

    Technics were my favorite turntables in college. They make some really quality kit, or at least they did back in the day, and this oddball VHS tape using device appears to be no exception. Shame this one didn't take off and go mainstream!

  • Thomas Talbot
    Thomas Talbot Year ago +79

    Audio on HiFi VHS was so excellent. I routinely used it for 6 hour recordings from radio or for mixes to play for an entire party. Seemed indistinguishable from CD or was very close in quality. It was like an audio quality secret weapon of the 1980s.

    • telocho
      telocho Year ago +1

      My vhs hifi produced some rattle in the sound when making pure audio recordings.

    • Jeff NME
      Jeff NME Year ago +2

      I did a show on community radio in the early 2000's and they were using VHS audio for pre-recorded shows and the overnight/graveyard on longplay.
      They only replaced it less than a decade ago when the studio was moved to a different building.

    • Glenna Howell
      Glenna Howell Year ago +1

      Thomas Talbot oh cool.

  • Shermanbay
    Shermanbay 3 months ago

    This machine may very well have been the inspiration for the 1992 Alesis ADAT, an 8-track studio quality audio recorder initially sold for $4000. I worked with Keith Barr of Alesis, the genius who invented the ADAT. He told me that existing video equipment (ca. 1989) was not good enough for his idea, so he had a custom video head prototype built, and was forced to use S-Video and triple the transport speed. All of this meant he could not build consumer units from off-the-shelf components, but had to design and build them to his own specs.

    With the option to gang and synchronize multiple units to increase the track count, the Alesis ADAT was a runaway best-seller. Perhaps Technics was just a little too early in the game this time.

  • Vintage Computer Custodian

    And thank you so very very much for providing us countless hours of amazing video footage (and commentary!) of our beloved electronic gadgets from yesteryear :)

  • Christopher Brodeur

    Congratulations on 1 million subscribers. Quite an amazing accomplishment. Absolutely love this channel. Well done

  • Michael Whiles
    Michael Whiles Year ago +1

    Epic review of an epic item, this is when Technics (like so many others) were at the TOP OF THEIR GAME - I messed about with slightly later PCM units ( Sony 501/ 701) slaved to Betamax decks even after CD recorders & DAT because most people couldn't copy the 'Masters' being on Beta !

  • John McBride
    John McBride Year ago +17

    I've been watching TechMoan for years now and I'm so happy to see you hit the 1M. So well deserved. Congratulations!

  • Blake Sherwood
    Blake Sherwood Year ago

    I gotta say, I’m not really an audio engineering guy, I’m more of just a general tech nerd but I love all these videos. Especially how you always give as much context and history as you can, which I think keeps me coming back for more just as much as my curiosity about these obscure machines.

  • Maxim S. Bagaev
    Maxim S. Bagaev Year ago

    What a wonderful piece of equipment! With added spdif and advanced labeling this could be an ultimate home editing and event sounding solution all the way before cdr. Congratulations on your first million subscribers!

  • Solitaire001
    Solitaire001 2 months ago

    Excellent video, and congratulations on 1 million subscribers. A well-deserved achievement.

    This was the kind of audio recorder I would have been looking for in the '80s. I think it would have been a better option than reel-to-reel tape.

    • WESTEL Audio
      WESTEL Audio Month ago

      A good R2R sounds just as good, at far less cost and complexity.

  • bariloche barracuda

    congrats for the million !!! you've more than earned it with your hard work. thank you for the joy and amazement, the fun and nostalgia, the knowledge . . . and the puppets!!!! take care!

  • Sadiq Mohamed
    Sadiq Mohamed Year ago +19

    Another great piece of history. I remember when the BBC started demoing Nicam Stereo on Radio 3. They used a Sony F1 processor and U-Matic combo to record the Proms. Normal FM showed no real difference apart from less tape noise, but the Nicam was a revelation. I attended a private demo at Broadcasting House (I had a friend in the Engineering Team who were supporting it) and listening to the digital recording with only two stages of analogue was amazing. Of course at the time there were no digital mixing desks, or amplifiers with digital input, but they did use a Quad setup with a pair of ESL-57s. At the time it was the clearest music recording I had ever heard. They used a piano concerto, and the quite sections with just the piano where so clear you could imagine you were in the same room. It would be interesting to compare the Sony PCM with Technics.

    One of the issues with digital audio or video until at least the late 90s was that coding and decoding at high quality pretty much required dedicated hardware. One of the weird things I discovered in the early 80s was that the cost of ADC had come down drastically because of Cruise Missiles! Apparently they needed a fast A to D and TRW bought a license to a BBC Research Department design that normally took up two large PCBs and made it into a rather large chip. The chip still cost as much as the two boards but it made the equipement much smaller and therefore cheaper. A strange bit of history. In the mid-90s I consulted on a project for MTV to use remote video servers for inserting ads into the downlinks. We digitised standard def PAL video using a SunSpark 10 workstation with a custom DSP that use 4 RISK processors. It cost £52K!

  • Stephen Dobbins
    Stephen Dobbins Year ago

    Even over TheXvid I can tell it has very superb audio quality. Just wish they still made these machines today. They work great for making master recordings.

  • BustaHymen
    BustaHymen Year ago

    I've only been following your channel for a couple of months, and still I've managed to see most of your videos. Truly great stuff, and as soon as that little bell indicates new material I get exited. This time - wow. This is one of the coolest things I've ever seen, thank you so much for this.
    You mentioned a lot of people recorded sound on VHS, some also backed up their hard drives on them. I suppose you already know, but here's a link to LGR's video for those who might not have seen it:
    And of course - congratulations! Very well deserved!

  • James Jinks
    James Jinks Year ago +2

    I'm so pleased to have been a small part of your journey. From explaining the differences between MD-80s and taking pictures of Yo-Sushi to showing us fascinating rare technology and cool independently made products.

  • lazycalm41
    lazycalm41 Year ago +1

    Thank you for sharing such an amazing piece of kit Techmoan. Amazing to think it has dozens of moving parts yet still works well after so many years. I have gone through 3 hard disc recorders in as many years and they have all ended up on the scrap heap after locking up and failing to work after a year. Only one moving part in inside each yet they are gone the way of the Dodo. This Technics machine is a perfect example of a quality piece of equipment made in Japan to a standard rather than the cheaply toshed together junk made in China to a price that we have today!

  • halcyondaystunes
    halcyondaystunes Year ago +37

    Had a friend who used to record music to S-VHS and always sounded amazing...Congrats on the 1m subs mate. so well deserved...One of the best channels on You Tube.

    • halcyondaystunes
      halcyondaystunes Year ago

      @Alfa Romeo 155 Q4 yeah I remember ADAT being in studios but never used them. Think they were Alesis machines...huge beastly things but did the job 😁

    • Linuxpunk81
      Linuxpunk81 Year ago +4

      We used svhs tapes to record the sonar working tapes in the early 2000s when I was on the USS San Juan. It was called the AN/UNK-9 but we called it the junk 9 because it was terrible and had the worst GUI ever invented 😂

  • Ra ul
    Ra ul Year ago

    I wish I had had one of those in the 80s when I was growing up and making mixed tapes from FM radio. I didn't know this technology existed. It looks amazing and the sound must be amazing too... although, I had a fair amount of compact cassettes back then. If it had been VHS tapes, I would have needed a lot of space to store them... and they are not very portable either. I don't suppose a VHS portable player would have been built.

  • Jason richard edmund Roberts

    Hi Mat.superb Chanel and excellent work👍 you really know you’re stuff,well presented in a informative and easy to understand. It great that you always seem to have little gold nuggets of pure genius,that we had forget about and you can bring us up to speed on.
    Have watched you’re Chanel for some time and always pleased with the content.i particularly liked you resent review on the Technics Digital VHS PCM player,what a clever bit of kit.
    I would like to suggest you consider reviewing the Technics Professional SL-P1200 Compact Disc Player,this was also built LIKE A TANK, I know.i have one!! This was a incredibly well made and respected player in its time and was used in numerous recording studios including many at Abbey Road.
    I’ve not experienced audio clout depth separation and finesse this machine actives.

    One thing I’d doesn’t do,however is play cds burnt on pcs, would you know why this is,and how to resolve it,my theory is ,the laser,is slightly different wavelength to later players.
    I believe the BBC orders 300-400 to use in there radio studios,these were mildly modified for broadcast use and were dubbed 1200b

    If you do consider it’s worthy of a review ,much appreciated.

    Keep up the excellent work and content👍


  • Flavio Pontes
    Flavio Pontes 11 months ago +1

    This is a fantastic review, and I really didn´t know any digital audio recorded on a VHS Type Tape, unless the SVHS tapes on ADAT machines, like the ALESIS ADAT 'Black Face' or XT-20. There was 8 digital audio channels, used on professional recordings, maybe in the 90s. They were 16 bit 44,1 kHz (first one) or 20 bit 44,1 kHz or 48 kHz (xt-20) formats. In these old times, I´ve had a band, and had recorded using the BlackFace ADAT. Now the tapes are here, and I´m struggling to extract those audios. And finally it´s very interesting see the beggining of the process of the audio on the
    VHS tapes on the early 80s, that technology maybe evolved to the ADAT machines.

  • Andrew D Souza
    Andrew D Souza Year ago

    Congrats Matt! On reaching 1mil subscribers. Your video brought back found memories, when I used Panasonic VHS Hi-Fi NV-HD100 to record my favourite radio programme

  • kenny lauderdale
    kenny lauderdale Year ago +75

    I'm kind of shocked I've never heard of this.

    • Steven Clarke
      Steven Clarke 10 months ago

      The same! It was too advanced and ahead of its time for its own good.

    • MrDuncl
      MrDuncl Year ago

      @Karl Hamilton It is very difficult to put a price on something like this. Based on "buy it now"s, the better, but more common Sony PCM-F1 seems to go for less than £1000

    • ssks1979
      ssks1979 Year ago +2

      Yes, same for me. I was in my early 20's, very interested in stereo equipment but this at its price was obviously beyond any HiFi dreams of mine. Thank you for finding one!

    • Karl Hamilton
      Karl Hamilton Year ago +1

      @aegisofhonor who says it wasn't insanely expensive :/

    • aegisofhonor
      aegisofhonor Year ago +5

      it's really really rare, I can only find 3 examples of them selling anywhere in the world over the last year to give you an idea of how uncommon they are. And because it's so complicated to work on, any malfunction, you're going to have a really hard time fixing this disaster of a repair project. I am kind of shocked that Techmoan as able to find one in fully working order that wasn't insanely expensive.

  • Maxx Urban
    Maxx Urban Year ago

    Congratulations on a million subscribers. This is the best technology channel on TheXvid. Incredibly interesting to watch and listen. Thank you for your efforts.

  • DashCamAndy
    DashCamAndy Year ago

    Mat, one of the things I love about your channel is I'm constantly discovering things I never knew I wanted, and even though I want them NOW, I have no practical use for them...
    Although this recorder is chunky, and heavy, it certainly looks rather handsome. I always liked that Technics used that not-quite-black color, and that VU meter is a pleasure to watch!
    On the inside... Holy crap, that thing must be a beast to repair... But it sounds pretty amazing when you played the output from the Line Out. And yes, I understand there was a bit of processing and conversion and whatnot, but I also know you worked with the best quality files all along the way, so you mitigated as much loss as possible.
    I've made VHS "mix tapes" before. Chuck the tape into one of the VCRs, turn on the TV, and do my homework on the living room couch. Stop the VCR when Star Trek: TNG came on, because why do homework when Picard is out there gallivanting around the galaxy? Of course, I was only using a mono VCR (mid-80s Mitsubishi with a corded remote) and a mono TV (1978 Panasonic)...

  • Nigel Hall
    Nigel Hall Year ago

    Wonderful, as always. So interesting and great narration. Long may your channel continue. Thanks! :-)

  • Nathan Stevens
    Nathan Stevens 4 months ago

    Very nice information on digital music on VHS. I didn't even realize you could vhs for audio before then. Really wish the section on using regular vhs for audio would be made into it's own video. I have recently been playing around with recording audio on VHS, and the sound quality is really good, and the cost of the equipment is much less than a good cassette deck. You can even make use of the video channel for displaying track information.

  • springbay1
    springbay1 Year ago +24

    Congrats on the 1M subs! And I hope this wonderful machine get a dedicated place in your Hi-Fi stack.

  • w purcell
    w purcell Year ago

    Love your channel. Fascinating stuff. Have you considered doing a comparison between quality of reel to reel tape versus audio only recorded on a hifi stereo VHS machine like the Sony slv-e1000 as there's quite a few discussions online about this topic talking about equivalent tape speeds of 80ips due to the rotating heads etc?

  • Arvid Rudling
    Arvid Rudling Year ago

    That digital audio/composite video connector is pure genius given the state of things in 1980. It means (and I guess that’s why this is covered in the manual) that you actually only needed one of these machines paired with an “inexpensive” VHS recorder in order to make a perfect digital copy. Similar principle to using compact cassette tapes for data storage, you could make a copy with no computer involved.

  • Eleph Kwong
    Eleph Kwong 8 months ago

    Excellent video. I did actually think of how well video tapes would produce enhanced recordings for audio. Thanks very much.

  • Criminology2009
    Criminology2009 Month ago

    It reminds me of an ADAT system that I used in a recording studio in 1993/4, which was basically digital multi-tracking using video cassettes that were all synced together. I also used to record using the Hi-Fi channels on a domestic video recorder (Phillips I think it was) which used to given really good sound quality for up to 8 hours when on long play. It had volume meters and slide faders on it to set the record levels.

  • Nathan Ashe
    Nathan Ashe Year ago

    Very interesting, as a Technics fan boy.
    I would love to have one in my collection but quick look on the net and few are available and at a high price and not in Australia naturally lol.

    Thanks so much for sharing I didn't know such a thing existed, as is the case with many of the things your have on your channel.
    Love it!

  • Tamas Kiss
    Tamas Kiss Year ago

    Congrats for the 1M subscribers. Well deserved. Love the channel, keep up the good work 👍

  • Anthony Hegedus
    Anthony Hegedus Year ago

    Bloody brilliant!! You don’t just go through the functions, you go right down all the rabbit-holes you can think of...! I knew right at the beginning that I was curious what would happen if you played the tape on a VCR, and you pandered to my inner nerd and did it. And you didn’t just do it, you tried it on a vcr with no hifi sound feature. Fantastic! Your videos really are excellent!

  • roy fishall
    roy fishall Year ago +2

    Yes, ordinary domestic VHS machines were used for audio for radio, usually on ours Memorex E-195 tapes which were reliable and dirt cheap, were used on lp, that was 6.5 hours, of programme material if needed. If I remember correctly there was a 5hr tape which gave 10 hours on lp. Excellent quality from the FM modulation used. I have a stack of cassettes and still use one as part of my 'hifi'.

  • Ali Cuntë
    Ali Cuntë 12 days ago

    Holy crap! This thing really blows my mind. I've heard of it, but I had no idea how advanced this still is.

  • MrGpsjim
    MrGpsjim Year ago +1

    Huge congratulations on reaching 1M!! Great channel, really interesting - keep ‘em coming.

  • Jake Van Loon
    Jake Van Loon Year ago

    Again a very well done demo! Running the digital out to a screen was brilliant.
    I would have never thought of that. But I was surprised that you didn't try copying a tape to a VHS VCR and play it back through the digital in and perhaps play the tape copy back in the Technics!

  • ndaniel80
    ndaniel80 Year ago

    Hi. This is another outstanding material I've just watched on your channel. Thanks to your hard work and efforts I can jump into a time capsule and move into the 70's and 80's to see how the masterpiece electronic devices worked back then. And this for me would be never possible as I was born exacltly in 1980, in Poland at the peak of cold war times. And when finaly the iron curtain was down and we could finaly see these brands on the shelves of our shops then such a devices like this one were already not produced anymore. But as said, thanks to you I can finaly satisfy my cutting edge but vintage technology curiosity. Congrats on 1M subs!

  • Zimiorg
    Zimiorg Year ago +13

    All these years with Techmoan, great.

    I appreciate that.

    Thank you.

  • jerrica benton
    jerrica benton Year ago

    I always thought VHS tape would also be an excellent analog recording medium due to the wide availability and the high bandwidth.
    at one point i had considered buying up a few bunch of broadcast VTRs (the ones with XLR/BNC jacks and RS-232 controls which could be synced to timecode). sync them together and use them for audio recording, but it just seemed like kind of time consuming and space consuming project...

  • Mihael Tominšek
    Mihael Tominšek Year ago

    Congratulations on a million subscribers!! I'm still one of them, regardless I only was once interested to find perfect dash cam for my car. It found it because of you! Thank you. It was MOBIUS. I was actually using them for weddings as cheaper and better alternative to GoPro Hero 1. I could decide which dash-cam is good for my purpose because you offered us original from camera sample files, which was impossible to find elsewhere. I still have 2 of them regardless it is now 4k era. I can make 4K timelapse of driving or sunset or venue filling up with people/leaving out. Also, they are great for special macro shots (hacked with unscrewed lens) of various things since they are small and easy to hide in flower arrangement or tie it to guitar neck etc. Now in 2020 I consider to finally put them to retirement as professional camera to finally use them as dash-cam. Taken appart, electronic hidden under roof fabric, with lens extension cable. In fact there is still no real HQ 4K substitute for Mobius. So BIG THANK YOU! If you ever happen to travel to my country (Slovenia), I will buy you a lunch and be your guide around capitol City of Ljubljana. Take my word for it.