Red Camera Mini Mag thing - my take on it.

  • Published on Jul 20, 2019
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Comments • 873

  • Louis Rossmann
    Louis Rossmann  4 months ago +459

    To be clear, I fully admit and cop to being clueless when it comes to professional video equipment. If anything I say here strikes you as strange... I have no idea what I am talking about. Feel free to educate me in the comments.

    • TwistedMe13
      TwistedMe13 4 months ago

      Linus tech tips has an excellent break down of this and actually owns a RED camera. But to condense it single paragraph. Red's Mini Mag is essentially a typical msata drive formatted to FAT32 (which is why RED's proprietary REDcode Raw codec creates a folder to record video to in 4GB chunks and essentially leaves it to your video editing software it together connected to a proprietary pin-to-pin adapter and installed into aluminum shell. If you want to delete a bad take, you need get all the data you want off the drive and do secure erase and reformat because RED never saw fit to implement proper garbage collection much less TRIM. Jinnimag a third party company selling knockoff mini mags probably is signal boosting the outrage to profit off it but is it rather hard to feeling any pity for RED considering the >1000% markup they have on the mini mag for what is essentially a typical msata shoved into a fancy case.
      What really kills me is they could take two M.2 2230 NVMe SSDs, cram them into the same size case and lash them together with an adapter as a RAID 1 drive, format it as an ext4 volume and create drivers to allow it to interface with a computer (like a Android device), and sell it the same price as the previous model and still rake in a ridiculous profit margin >5x-- only have a product far more worthy of being sold by a 'Professional' brand.

    • Googlar
      Googlar 4 months ago

      @WarLordN1k Yeah, I think the video Linus did is a large part of why so many tech enthusiasts find Red to be offensive.

    • A
      A 4 months ago

      @TheSpliffinatoR triggered dumbfuck xdddddddddddddddddd

    • Aitor Bleda
      Aitor Bleda 4 months ago

      @TheSpliffinatoR The problem comes when those 100K per day actors do their work.. and you crappy SSD dies. It is ridiculous.

  • ToungStud Productions
    ToungStud Productions 27 days ago

    I own a RED RAVEN camera, and I was PISSED when I found out that the recording media was not developed by red, and was NOT constructed in house. Not because of the fact that they didn't really develop it, but the COST THEY CHARGE FOR STANDARD Crucial M500 SSD that you can buy from the l web site for 200 is dolor's!!!! ABUT RED CHARGES ALMOST $1K for 128GIG recording media. It's bull and I'm pissed.There is NOTHING in the RED MINIMAG that is custom from red [case excluded] but they made it sound and charged like it WAS. The only thing they did was to put some code on the card that the camera looks for that tells the 'Brain" that the card is okay to use. I'm two seconds from selling my red and buying a Arri Alexa...

  • Tony Edwards
    Tony Edwards 2 months ago

    How is TheXvid still running losing 2 billion a year

  • EposVox
    EposVox 2 months ago

    Hahaha yes

  • TVperson1
    TVperson1 3 months ago

    But I discovered recently that my GH5 and every GH5 has fixed pattern noise in the shadows and now I can't unsee it., I had Panasonic fix the camera and replace the sensor and low and behold same problem. I hate how cheap manufacturers are.

  • Brian Jordan
    Brian Jordan 3 months ago

    but all the mag is is a proprietary m.2 converter. you only save a couple hundred dollars on to the generic one

  • skrenja
    skrenja 3 months ago

    ARRI ftw.

  • Laika the wolfdog
    Laika the wolfdog 3 months ago

    I've owned a Red camera (Red Epic X). It was a piece of shit. Arrived dead on arrival, had to wait 2 months to get it repaired.

  • Johan Wahyudi
    Johan Wahyudi 3 months ago

    Panda eyes. Be careful with your health

  • Daniel Rozsnyó
    Daniel Rozsnyó 3 months ago

    I wanted to own a RED camera, but it was so crappy in spec, that I decided to make my own cine cam. Now I am in camera design business for 10 years.
    And I finally bought a RED camera last year - a cheap broken one. And repaired it in a true "Rossman" style - with replacing a $0.20 TI 3.3V LDO that powered the power management chip. Without whatsoever documentation - you wont find schematics or board files for RED cams.

  • Blackmachismoo
    Blackmachismoo 3 months ago

    Dont buy a Red Camera. Simple!

  • Brian Piper
    Brian Piper 3 months ago

    If u really care about this wach the LTT video

  • M1zi3
    M1zi3 3 months ago

    Well MKBHD need red to make his bias youtube video.

  • DigitalRanger
    DigitalRanger 3 months ago

    You get the requests because you are successful on TheXvid! Enjoy it!

  • Lotfi Kaz Film
    Lotfi Kaz Film 3 months ago

    We can tell.. Headspace framing is way off but the background blur is nice and color matching black chair black polo shirt and black cabinet is a nice touch

  • Jason Hall
    Jason Hall 3 months ago

    So when I worked for seagate, we would get “custom firmware” from the likes of Hp,ibm,sun, and apple. Now I cannot speak to all the firmware but for the most part, it was only just slight changes to how the device reported to the drive controllers (for drm purposes) and changes to when the drives would sleep, it was never a change to how the drive stored the data, we developed that part of the firmware and it was the same for all drives. Not saying red is lying but I find it hard to believe they developed the firmware for how their ssds store the data, but I do believe they changed how the ssds report to the controller and slow down the writes depending if it was a “red ssd” or not

  • Sergei Abbitjakokov
    Sergei Abbitjakokov 3 months ago

    It's easier to fool people than to convince people they've been fooled - Mark Twain

  • Matt Harden
    Matt Harden 3 months ago

    Ready for USB-C camera lenses that use your computer for image processing. No need for all that Red hardware.

  • ketherga
    ketherga 3 months ago

    Re: insulin.
    Fun fact, four new, better, types of insulin were brought to market in 2017 alone.

  • Tad Williamson
    Tad Williamson 3 months ago

    I have worked with people that think the more you pay the better something is. their perceived value is higher cost. as a example one guy I worked with in 1998 would pay 3.99 a Qt for Havoline 10 w 30 at the speed shop, it was 1.09 Qt. at Checkers Auto Parts same oil, same bottle. Red Camera can charge that because their customers like Apple's are willing to pay that price.

  • GeeksWithFeet
    GeeksWithFeet 3 months ago

    It's interesting that most people that speako out against Scientology aren't even in Scientology at all!..... Equal logic

  • SquareEyes
    SquareEyes 3 months ago

    American companies...

  • je2854
    je2854 4 months ago

    To take on a task people have asked of you that you have no idea. You've earned my mad respect. You Sir, are the real deal. Thanks for catering to the "people"

  • daggern15
    daggern15 4 months ago

    "a lot of the people that are shitting on Red for this don't own a Red camera; a lot of the people defending Red appear to be people that own Red cameras"

    I call this the Fanboy Effect

  • Dean Harrington
    Dean Harrington 4 months ago

    Part of the problem with high cost cameras in the pro cinema/video production environment is simply name value. Red, Ariflex, Sony named products suggest quality gear that will, in most cases, keep performing in harsh shooting conditions. Is it true ... not always the case but ... I still have a Sony EX3 camera that's more than 10 years old and it's never had a problem and is still in use. A few other cameras ... I will not name ... reside in a closet and are of no value.

  • Fabian Köhler
    Fabian Köhler 4 months ago

    Could LTT or so not just 3D-print an "Mini-Mag to Sata enclosure", using the original PCB from the Red-interface to m-sata and plug an m-Sata to sata-adapter into ist, so you have just an Power+Data cable comming out. Then you could use ANY SATA-SSD you like. When done shooting: unplug the Drive and grab another one, you can get 512GiB SSDs for under 75 €/$/Cunnuckistan copax.

  • JAmedia-UK
    JAmedia-UK 4 months ago

    Your video did not address the technicalities of the Red vs Jini electronics and SSD's
    The problem was that Red claimed to do one thing but did something else. They then attacked Jinimag for selling the same thing at a fraction the price and exposing Red for not doing what they were claiming.

  • João Tavares
    João Tavares 4 months ago

    Stockholm syndrome applies even to cameras. The bonds are real.

  • Anneke de Bruyn
    Anneke de Bruyn 4 months ago +1

    As someone using REDs at least one time a month I can tell you that they don't seem much more reliable than the SSDs in an old prosumer BlackMagic Production camera.
    P2 cards the best.

    • Anneke de Bruyn
      Anneke de Bruyn 3 months ago

      @Jason shald The camera OS part makes sense. Usually the cameras that do use P2 cards seem to be great cams

    • Jason shald
      Jason shald 3 months ago

      Hahhahahah. Love the P2 comments. Worked with thousands upon thousands of hours of p2 footage at a high volume live multicamera production company for a decade. Only had an issue once. The "tape op" erased the show accidentally and even did another small recording on the card before he realized the error. Panasonic actually recovered it... And now that I'm producing low budget stuff again and shooting on SD cards - no issues there either. I think many of the "media" problems you see on some camera systems is actually OS crashes in the camera itself.... When did i leave that large production company? Shortly after a week of testing new cameras including multiple 60k level rigs. Brought in my new Sony A7s recording into an external recorder to compare..... Not that the Sony "won" but definitely redefined the cost/performance ratio to the extent that I was much more interested in picking my own clients moving forward, working for myself.... Glad I wasn't one of the dozens of young producers in every city that blew their trust funds on a Red before they had a business model to support it... Hahahahhaha.

  • Eddy James
    Eddy James 4 months ago

    A rip off scam is a rip off scam. End of story.

    ELIAN 4 months ago

    I do know a little about video but the fact is that SOME red cameras can do things that no other camera can do. The way the accessories connect without cables, the fact that they have one of the very few 8K cameras out (and it also has a "large format” sensor) and a recognizable color science that people like, they can charge whatever they want because when a studios needs those qualities it makes the red cameras priceless.
    Is there a markup? Absolutely.
    But in pro video this is very normal. If you are honestly considering purchasing one, you probably don't care. And no , you never need a RED, in the same way that you don't need some of the expensive tools in your store to fix a laptop, but they make the job easier or add some value to your work. I'm sure those have markups as well, but for professional equipment that's to be expected.
    Now on the other hand, RED cameras have a habbit of being unreliable which is way bigger of a sin, but again because of the redeeming qualities of the camera when the production calls for a RED most studios just get spare models so they can just replace a camera if it decides to stop working.
    Kinda like how a Mac is garbage until someone needs to use Premiere Pro and then it's priceless.
    And just to be clear I'm not a fanboy, I don't own a Red myself, and they are absolutely not perfect (far from it). It's just that we are talking about professional equipment and arguing from a consumer standpoint, it's (no pun intended) pointless.

  • TheGhost331
    TheGhost331 4 months ago

    i must re-watch House now

  • unfa
    unfa 4 months ago

    *Consider this issue covered.*
    I loled.

  • DooHickey Studios
    DooHickey Studios 4 months ago

    Just one of the ASICS in the red cost $1500

  • Underp4ntz
    Underp4ntz 4 months ago

    I own a red scarlet camera its a cool camera but i still shit on them lol... ah well...

  • Riley Guy
    Riley Guy 4 months ago

    I don't own a RED camera, have never owned one, never WILL own one and am not a professional in the video industry at all. With that said even a normal person like me can see that RED is just another corporation that wants to take as much of your money as they can while offering as few features as possible that are crappy or are hyped up beyond belief. I bet that it takes less than 1/8th of the cost they charge for to manufacture these cameras and their accessories; this company is like apple 2.0, now with more ways to screw you all the way from Sunday. I don't really have a lot to add other than that, but I think Louis covered it quite well. If you want one reason to avoid RED cameras, it should be their disgustingly greedy practices.

  • Bill A
    Bill A 4 months ago +2

    You don't need a Red Camera for TheXvid videos... you just need TheXvid Red xD

  • duncan rmi
    duncan rmi 4 months ago

    what Tyson says. RED is a massive ripoff. makes apple look like a charitable concern.

  • Enrique Garcia
    Enrique Garcia 4 months ago

    We fucking hate RED because we payed for their SSDs and Camera.

  • John Bamber
    John Bamber 4 months ago

    Checkout the Linus Tech Tips video if you're interested in the thoughts from someone more familiar with Red.
    (Just want to go ahead and clarify that I'm not implying anything negative about Louis.)

  • righteousbae
    righteousbae 4 months ago

    Maybe not the best parallel to bring up, but Phase One and Hasselblad fill a similar space in the commercial photo world similar to RED in the video world.
    Both companies charge prices that are significantly higher than the standard professional camera manufacturers. A used entry level phase one kit will run about 15k if you forgo the warranty.
    Now hasselblad charged high prices for the longest time. One model I'll focus on is their H5d-50C, a 50 mp medium format camera with some wireless features. That model sold for a bit over 25k for the longest time.
    However now, hasselblad has been losing their market to Phase one (also super expensive but they're actually doing a lot of innovation). So that same H5D-50C, is available on sites that still have them new for just about six grand. Less than 25% of the original price.
    For the longest time, you were paying for the name, you were buying the brand that went to the moon and had been behind dozens of iconic photographs. But now the completion has them beat, and they cant rely on the name anymore for sales.

  • iambujar
    iambujar 4 months ago +1

    Linus tech tips total cost of a complete red camera has kosted him more than $240.000 and this is absolutely absurd and this time i find the apple stand reasonable lool

  • Dennis Allen
    Dennis Allen 4 months ago

    my Canon Vixia HR F80 does that same clipping video trick. That's a file size limit issue to make the video cross platform between PC/Mac. RED didn't do anything special there

  • Dan Powers
    Dan Powers 4 months ago

    My take. It's like saying you can't upgrade the SSD in your Mac with a 3rd party one because HFS+ had tons of RnD invested into it. Seems that REDs claim is bullshit and this is 100% protecting their revenue stream.

  • MadScientist512
    MadScientist512 4 months ago

    "Value Creation" is the reoccurring theme here and one of capitalism's dirtiest tactics, which is saying something, and there should be more reverse-engineered proprietary devices like connectors, cables and storage to force those prices down, so good job on jini tech for taking a stand on this. Like Rossmann says it's ironically the users who, in their irrational worship of their products' makers, are advocating against their own self interests, presumably due to 'sunk cost fallacy' and fear of being proved wrong; it all comes down to ego, and associating one's self-worth with a companies' products, that's why a companies dirty tactics are glossed over by it's users, ironically leaving those who don't have a dog in the fight to advocate for those user's rights. If anything, it demonstrates the power corporations have over the mentality of their user bases.

  • jayk806
    jayk806 4 months ago

    I totally see what you are talking about re: who is arguing for what. Both groups are arguing for the thing that allows them to feel good about the choice they already made. Accepting the counter-argument means they have to admit they were wrong, and that is too painful.

  • OlaGolme
    OlaGolme 4 months ago

    Damn, your analysis was really good. I am a filmmaker and appreciated your comment!

  • lucus lopez
    lucus lopez 4 months ago

    People keep complaining about overpriced useless tech. The solution to it is to not buy it. No one is forcing you to buy it.

  • denisindic
    denisindic 4 months ago

    When it comes to professional cinema RED is getting less and less popularity (to be honest it was only popular with the RED One because of its novelty). In the other hand ARRI (a German company that has been producing cinema equipment for decades, not sunglasses) and its flagship Alexa have been by far the preferred camera for DOPs.
    RED has targeted a completely different customer segment and seems that it has worked for them. No one bought cinema cameras, production companies just rented them. But RED made it easier for freelancers to buy them. And here we are....

  • Removed Cables
    Removed Cables 4 months ago

    The issue behind this isn't that Red is charging people through the nose for equipment, and that only a small portion of the industry will even buy it, it's that there's nothing special about the SSDs. It just a subpar SSD with a proprietary to msata connector, and a text file that locks it down. The other issue is that to this day the CEO is still trying to say the SSDs are special even though he's been proven wrong.

    I would also disagree that this doesn't affect people. I know someone who has a small business doing video production that got a Red because it brings him business since some people wouldn't hire him otherwise due to the name recognition of Red. Having him spend so much on SSDs meant that he had to make cuts elsewhere in his business, he cut his editing workstation budget. Now he has to spend more time waiting for his videos to render instead of doing more shooting with other clients that would have hired him.

    Also while I do enjoy your content, having a better camera does make any content on TheXvid better. Even PewDiePie has a better camera than you now.

  • Pentium100MHz
    Pentium100MHz 4 months ago

    I personally really dislike overpriced stuff. Expensive stuff is OK, but overpriced - no. For example, if that $2200 cartridge had a couple of $700 SSDs in in in RAID1 it would be OK in my book.
    While I do not make videos and the Red cameras and their cartridges do not really affect me, there is one very similar thing that annoys me - "brand name" hard drives for servers.
    HP (and other manufacturers) want me to buy "HP" hard drives for their servers. Here's the problem - HP does not make hard drives, so the "HP drive is just a standard WD or Seagate or Toshiba drive with a "HP" sticker on it and double (or more) the price. Oh and when you buy a server ir comes without caddies for the drives.
    Now, most of the time standard drives work in those servers and caddies are available on ebay, but it still is annoying.
    One of the reasons I prefer to buy Supermicro servers - they come with the caddies and do not complain about standard drives.

    When I buy a laptop, for example, one thing that is a deal breaker for me - proprietary power adapters - if the adapter needs to do anything else beside providing some voltage at some current - I go look for a different laptop.

    Basically two things annoy me greatly - overpriced stuff and artificial limits.

  • Ice Guy
    Ice Guy 4 months ago

    Buying a RED camera to make TheXvid videos cracks me up.

  • Peter Healthy Lifestyle

    Thank for being honest bro.

  • Will Black
    Will Black 4 months ago

    You know what? I'll stick to using film.

  • EXcentriX
    EXcentriX 4 months ago

    out of curiosity, I decided to look what redcode is. I found a demo page and it starts with comparing a 4K image to a HD image, saying "look, there is details lost in HD resolution".
    Wow, excervabating sick. I totally didn't knew that, I am fucking stunned. Gonna take my wedding photos as 120K, so I can tell my kid "look into my pores on my fukkin face!"

  • Jeremiah O'Neal WE6JBO
    Jeremiah O'Neal WE6JBO 4 months ago

    Your video looks washed out Louis.

  • Mena Azer
    Mena Azer 4 months ago

    The whole folder 'DRM' thing is just simply organization to get around the fact the mag's are formatted in FAT32 and to get around the 4GB file size limit. The files get simply stitched

  • Googlar
    Googlar 4 months ago

    Red Camera is quite shameless. If they're charging so much for everything, why wouldn't they put better SSD's into them? People are paying huge amounts of money to have the privilege of using these high-end cameras, they should have very good SSDs in them, not the same SSD's that you'd find in an entry level pre-built computer. High-end pro users can live with high mark-up, but high mark-up on cheap crap? cmon!

    CHARLES LIM 4 months ago

    i own a red dragon, i am outraged. not going to upgrade my camera.

  • EdgyShooter
    EdgyShooter 4 months ago

    I think the issue people have isn't just the mark-up, its the extreme mark-up on flawed product, something that has no redundancy, is prone to failure and you have literally no better option, because if you try and use a more reliable SSD you're likely to get a nice curb stomp from the DRM, if not now, then randomly due to an update.
    It's like a more extreme version of the apple keyboard, offering a fix for a known flawed product is not better than just providing a better quality product in the first place.
    At least with the apple keyboards, if it breaks, they fix it, worst case scenario you're out of a computer for a few days, if they can't fix it, you get a new PC with all your data transferred.
    Using cheap drives with no redundancy means when they fail, it's not as simple as replacing it, because it now needs to have data recovery done on it, and that is no guarantee that you'll ever get the data back.