The Hobbit: Battle of Five Studios (Part 2/2)

  • Published on Apr 3, 2018
  • So we've looked into what the problems were with these movies, the question now is... why? What happened, Peter Jackson? WHAT HAPPENED?
  • EntertainmentEntertainment

Comments • 5 819

  • 黑龍 - Hắc Long
    黑龍 - Hắc Long 2 hours ago

    ¿Why would women be harder to write? This only works if one were to write women as a sum of their parts and not as people, that unexplained sentence does not deserve inclusion.

  • TheOddSusie
    TheOddSusie 10 hours ago

    I have just seriously fallen in love with your channel and can't wait to gorge all of your other videos. Fantastic analysis and- honestly I feel like you've given me a lot of closure by explaining in detail why The Hobbit came out so... Not good. It's like you elegantly voiced grievances I had but didn't know or understand how to explain. I also grew up with The Lord of the Rings trilogy as a young girl like you, it was a family tradition for us to watch the extended DVDs at least once a year and we were all *SO EXCITED* to watch The Hobbit. I remember the first time we all saw it and coming out the cinema just feeling a bit like... "What just happened?" and this reaction just amplified with each Hobbit film that came out...
    So yeah, thanks for the closure. Somehow it feels better to know that the fault mainly lies with studios trying to make more money.

  • beepbeep
    beepbeep 10 hours ago

    THILBOOOOO! Ah man, I left that phase years sgo, but I genuinely love the dynamic between those two characters so much.

  • anthysis
    anthysis Day ago

    i just read a thing that tauriel was initially a character of del toro's creation because he thought more women needed be main characters in the story. obviously her character was kept in...with the insistence that she was someone's love interest as she mentioned in that interview. :/ makes me wonder what her character was SUPPOSED to be like

  • Sarah Inman
    Sarah Inman Day ago

    Ahh what about Earthsea where the patriarchal structures are directly addressed over the course of an entire book (Tehanu)?

  • Veereble Atsim
    Veereble Atsim 2 days ago

    It is very true that both Thorin and Kili don't really look all that Dwarvish... which is why that I love that some of the fandom have decided that among dwarves they're considered unattractive lol.

  • Etana Edelman
    Etana Edelman 2 days ago

    You know I would be interested in Tauriel as a character and even her relationship with Kili if Del Toro had directed the film.

  • Timothy K
    Timothy K 3 days ago

    Review was cool till you went off on the patriarchy. Men built the whole world you live in. Every structure and roadway. Your not a victim. 🇺🇸😎

  • Gonzalo Vazquez Avila

    I would love to have been a fly on the wall when you and John Callen talked. His last words were so heart breaking.

  • Gonzalo Vazquez Avila

    This video is brilliant, and the interview clips of Del Toro, John Callen and Evangeline Lily, really added weight to your words!

  • LiveAction Link
    LiveAction Link 3 days ago

    Just fyi, they did explain why Dain was CGI. It was because once they put all the prosthetics and make-up on Connolly it was so much that you couldn't even make out his expressions and face anymore. Which is a dumb reason, seeing as how they could have just put less on him lol. Also, they couldn't do a lot/most of the action scenes they did for Dain with a real actor

  • LiveAction Link
    LiveAction Link 3 days ago

    Oh Del Toro... what could have been *sigh*. TLotR is Jacksons baby and his masterpiece. The Hobbit should have been Del Toros own style and the creation of a new kind of masterpiece

  • 10INTM
    10INTM 4 days ago

    No Aragorn would not be 10. Watch the extended version of Two Towers, they cover how he's Dunedain or something and that he's in his 80's.

  • Tobias Abelius
    Tobias Abelius 4 days ago

    Briljant skämt om att göra det till tre youtube-videos! :D 2/3 xD

  • Sir, Knight The Devout.

    Uh Tolkien's writings aren't at all sexist Elven women can fight in fact they normally choose not to.

  • Alex Willis
    Alex Willis 6 days ago

    Why do elves look like Malfoys?

  • Takeme Rightnow
    Takeme Rightnow 7 days ago

    So by making it three movies rather than two, Weinstein only was able to cash in on a third of the franchise rather than a half?Good call, Jackson, good call!

  • Provoganda
    Provoganda 8 days ago

    They're racist against dwarves. That's why they had the lead-dwarf look like a human. ;-)

  • thadius barnelsnatch

    My understanding is that Aragorn family is part of some ancient line which lives longer and ages slower than normal men and that by the time of the hobbit he’s pretty old by normal human standards

    • hunter zillas
      hunter zillas 7 days ago

      That's exactly it. In LOTR he's 87, and it was even in the extended edition, but they decided to remove it from the theatrical cut.

  • Stella Starnes
    Stella Starnes 10 days ago

    Thank you, thank you, thank you Lindsey Ellis for everything you have to say about Tauriel. I was twelve when I first got into "The Hobbit" and I'm a woman, and it honestly has never bothered me in all of the years I've grown up reading the story that all of the original characters are male. In fact, I've always loved it! Also, I didn't expect or even need such an obvious Poldark foreshadowing love story to get my butt in a cinema seat for these movies. Arwen, Galadriel and Eowyn (and also the red haired Rohirrim mother from "The Two Towers" and Rosie Cotton) are so integral to "The Lord of the Rings" and Tauriel just sticks out like a sore thumb when you try and compare her to them. There are, actually, plenty of female characters in "The Lord of the Rings" even including the minor ones when we look close enough that we only ever needed the women and children in Lake Town for "The Hobbit" films. I literally cannot stand the inclusion and overuse of Tauriel. It ruined a good story where there was no reason at all for a pathetic love story to steal Bilbo's spotlight.

  • DerekGuerrero
    DerekGuerrero 10 days ago

    This video reminded me a lot of the guys on nostalgia critic reviews who say "but the chart says..."

  • Kelly Vee
    Kelly Vee 10 days ago

    I enjoyed the nod to Terry Goodkind. If you want a comparison between book and film, that is one hell of a butchering.

  • ClayXros
    ClayXros 10 days ago

    Geez louise they screwed this movie so much it’s like I’m watching a video bashing EA.

  • sammorgan31
    sammorgan31 10 days ago

    "Representation" screws up plenty of works.

  • Kyle Rogers
    Kyle Rogers 11 days ago

    The stinger joke in the end about how its going to be 3 videos now earned my subscription. Wow.

  • DavieM25
    DavieM25 11 days ago

    VERY good, well researched and put together video. I love these series!

  • The Garden of Eatin
    The Garden of Eatin 12 days ago

    Am I doing something wrong? Every video in which there is speech, and then music as intro/outro/transition, if I have the audio up loud enough to clearly hear the voice, the musical transitions blow out every window in a ten block radius.

  • Fifteen Giraffes
    Fifteen Giraffes 13 days ago +1

    1:19 Oh jesus... 'Exploitative' is right. That's €546, for that plain and uninteresting-looking cloak. It doesn't have interesting trims or an ornate clasp or anything, it doesn't have a nice colour, and it doesn't even look like a comfortable fabric to wear.
    For comparison, I've bought incredibly badass fantasy cloaks in beautiful and cosy fabrics with bells and whistles and solid craftsmanship for under €100, and I've never even seen a cloak priced over €150 or so. You should be able to buy a cloak like this one for a tenth of the price -- or, heck, make it yourself! Cloaks are not complicated, it's just a big sheet of fabric with minimal adjustments!

  • Dubious Fizzgig
    Dubious Fizzgig 13 days ago

    29:55 LOL

  • kmungal
    kmungal 13 days ago

    I hate . ... I how they talk....Because ..... Once you see it.......The pacing takes away ....from the scene

  • matt25675
    matt25675 13 days ago

    It sounds honestly like the movies would have been a lot better if Del toro had full control

  • Derrick Smith
    Derrick Smith 13 days ago

    Thank you for giving form, detail, and voice to the hitherto nebulous and unexpressed dissatisfaction of The Hobbit fans everywhere.

  • NJDevilsforlife Woohoo

    The gay issue is just plain idiocy. What is wrong with one man loving another man, or a hobbit loving a dwarf. Besides wasn't it stated at some point that you couldn't tell the difference between a male and female dwarf. Maybe they were female hence less hair and the love triangle wasn't two males and one female but two females and one male. Just a theory.

    • Etana Edelman
      Etana Edelman 2 days ago

      Despite all the gay jokes about Sam and Frodo, the LOTR movies made billions of dollars. But the studios would probably rather lose money than risk another gay joke.

  • Karen Bowler
    Karen Bowler 13 days ago

    When I watched these movies, the statement "based on" hit home. I bought them when they came out and waited until i had all of them and watched them only once.

  • ImAGdDmnDragn
    ImAGdDmnDragn 13 days ago

    The Hobbit movies were a huge disappointment. I never even bothered to see the third one.

  • MrWeedWacky
    MrWeedWacky 13 days ago

    "My nipples are exploding with delight" dammit... he didn't say that...

  • TheOnePabb
    TheOnePabb 14 days ago

    This has nothing to do with anything but "laying the tracks in front of the train" gave me Minecraft flashbacks, and maybe now that I've pointed it out it will for you too. You're welcome / Sorry.

  • Alex Smith
    Alex Smith 15 days ago

    An Unexpected Journey actually had some magic and I enjoyed most of it.
    However, much like Thorin as he walked to fight Azog, the trilogy fell flat on its face by the end and sadly for us there was no Hobbit there to tackle the studios and save us from mediocrity. To what might have been! 🍻

  • Adam Ethridge
    Adam Ethridge 15 days ago

    Fuck you Orlando Bloom

  • Adam Ethridge
    Adam Ethridge 15 days ago

    This movie was fan service

  • MrElgreengo
    MrElgreengo 15 days ago

    Just discovered your channel with the first 2 videos. Thx for the good work. Very pleasant Humour and Writing !

  • Venom Raven
    Venom Raven 15 days ago

    22:40 Schizophrenia is not multiple perosnality disorder. Come on its current year

  • MegaDeox
    MegaDeox 15 days ago

    Did you really have to show the "WHY DOES IT HURT SO MUCH" like 5 times? I'm cringed all the way to the Shire.

  • colinsizzorhandz
    colinsizzorhandz 16 days ago

    LOL at the hobbit lady passing the note and then ridiculously lowering out of shot. it's the little things

  • Patrick Star
    Patrick Star 16 days ago

    I'm going to hobbiton in 3 days. Hope it's as great as I think it is.

  • aleks 430
    aleks 430 16 days ago

    Please don’t continue incorrectly pronounce it ‘dyin’ in the face of learning the correct pronunciation of ‘dain’

  • The Cooler Rats
    The Cooler Rats 16 days ago

    Here’s the thing if the movies were recut to remove the unnecessary editions/trim some of the over long action would what remained be good?

  • PoeBoi Kramere
    PoeBoi Kramere 16 days ago

    Del Toro would have made a great director for The Hobbit. Ive seen The Lord Of The Rings I wanted to see The Hobbit unfortunately we got "this" *sighs*

  • Paolo Colli Vignarelli

    Just found your channel, and let me say this: it's freaking *awesome* ! Great job Lindsay, really smart and inspiring videos!
    PS: as a huge Tolkien fan I would really have loved a Del Toro's, 2-film-long Hobbit series - it wuold probably have catched the true, magical and kind of childish spirit of the book. Instead we had a very useless Orlando Bloom. Show business is a bitch...

  • lifeofasalesman01
    lifeofasalesman01 16 days ago

    Lindsay wanna go on a date with me? :D

  • emily cheetham
    emily cheetham 16 days ago

    Garth nix, trudi canavan and maria v snyder all have strong female characters.

  • emily cheetham
    emily cheetham 16 days ago

    I definitely think it was the studio alone decision that wanted the ever so annoying and stupid love triangle. Worst decision ever studio. You annoyed many people.
    On your question bad rep or no rep I think bad rep is worst than no rep.

  • Siddharth Krishna
    Siddharth Krishna 16 days ago

    The caption at 29:09

  • TheBremaex
    TheBremaex 16 days ago

    This was highly entertaining

  • HaploidCell
    HaploidCell 16 days ago

    Dat ending lmao
    every damn time

  • CrashCat2
    CrashCat2 16 days ago +1

    [I'm not transcribing this again]

  • Hallam Crafer
    Hallam Crafer 16 days ago

    I find I recapture my childhood just from watching the LOTR trilogy - it's so well produced and directed that it just pulls me back to a certain time and place every time, like a good film should. The Hobbit as a book does the same, I wish I could say the same for the film trilogy but it seems lacking in, I don't know, soul?

  • Bikko
    Bikko 16 days ago

    21:50 And you have The Wheel of Time, where all the world is ruled by women, the Aes Sedai, powerful mages :)

  • Victor Moregore
    Victor Moregore 16 days ago +1

    Is Nella your gardener?

  • alex liggins
    alex liggins 16 days ago

    This isn't a video essay anymore, its a documentary and i love it

  • person voice
    person voice 16 days ago

    Aragorn is like 80 in TLOTR. The Hobbit movies still suck though. Great videos! Thanks! :)

  • Michael Van Buren
    Michael Van Buren 16 days ago

    This is hands down, the best breakdown of the problems with the Hobbit I've seen on TheXvid. 👍Thank you

  • David Loomis
    David Loomis 16 days ago

    I was hoping I'd get to part two and find that you'd expanded it to be a 5 part series. And then I saw that there was a part 3/2 and... well played.

  • Clean Willie
    Clean Willie 16 days ago

    The old saying that "lightning never strikes the same place twice" should have been a warning to the producers that Del Toro's vision of 'The Hobbit' would have been more of a success, both artistically (not that the studio would care) & financially, than attempting to make a Lord of the Rings prequel in place of 'The Hobbit'. 'The Hobbit' should have been able to stand on it's own, without using 'The Lord of the Rings' as a crutch.

  • ZeltArruin
    ZeltArruin 17 days ago

    The Dane/Dain pronunciation was irritating

  • Pb 207.2
    Pb 207.2 17 days ago

    Sacrificing story for images or image will always detract from quality.

  • phydeux
    phydeux 17 days ago

    Why have I not come across these videos before? (Damn you TheXvid!) You're a delight to watch, and more importantly listen to. As much as I like other takedowns/criticisms of movies such as CinemaSins, Honest Trailers, etc... the longer they are the less enjoyable their hosts are to listen to. But you have a wonderful narrating voice, and your insights are smart and witty without going full on boorish, tedious, preachy, or campy as others tend to do. And it doesn't hurt that you quite pleasant on the eyes to boot. Beauty, brains, and a pleasant voice? Gimme more of that any day!
    As to the content (so far, got 3 of 2 yet to watch) you've pointed out a lot of things I'd never even considered, mostly because I never bothered to read the source material. My first film was the Disney animated Hobbit and the read-along record and book set that I literally wore the grooves out of as a kid. So hearing how you view it gives me a whole new perspective on things. I was especially interested to learn the backstabbing BS created by the studios in packaging the movies the way they did. It seems like boardrooms are ruining everything these days in entertainment; Stargate, Star Wars, Fallout 76, No Man's Sky, Marvel superheroes changing sexuality/gender, Star Trek, and so on.... And hearing from someone in the cast about it added a lot of weight to everything you mentioned. Nothing firms things up like an eyewitness.
    And I appreciate the shout-outs to Terry Goodkind's "Sword of Truth" series and Piers Anthony's "Xanth" series as those are among my favorites in fantasy writing. I used to have the entirety of both collections until I had to start seriously adulting and largely gave up reading fantasy for taking it in more digestible video formats. (aka I got lazy) But it's nice to come across someone with similar tastes in reading material and a commonality of experiences. :) No one did puns like Piers! And Terry knew how to run up the page-count in a book like no other.
    Anyhow, on to part 3 of 2, and I look forward to checking out more of your work. Keep up the great work.

  • Forsaken Algonquinia
    Forsaken Algonquinia 17 days ago

    what's heartbreaking for me is that it could've been amazing. the intention was there, the talent, the spirit...all swept away by greed(

  • j.oz
    j.oz 17 days ago

    I remembered that Aragorn was already pretty old by the events of the Lord of the Rings, and so I double-checked against the book - and you're right. Aragorn was 8 when The Hobbit kicked off.

  • Black Mormon
    Black Mormon 17 days ago

    18:35 I LOVE YOU

  • Evilmike42
    Evilmike42 17 days ago

    Basically, Del Toro got fucked. Proper fucked. By ze Germans.

  • _ DeltaGaming _
    _ DeltaGaming _ 17 days ago

    Strider would actually be 20

  • Traumatias0
    Traumatias0 18 days ago

    a) The Hobbit has, roughly, 28 male characters (13 dwarves, Bilbo, Frodo, Gandalf, Saruman, Elrond, Radagast, Thranduil, Legolas, Bard, Bard's son, Alfrid, Smaug, the master of Laketown, 2 villainous orcs, Sauron) and almost 4 female characters (Tauriel, Galadriel, Bard's 2 daughters).
    Of those 28 males, about 6 of them have somewhat developed story lines and audiences might give a shit whether they live or die. That means only 21% of the male characters in the Hobbit, is somewhat interesting.
    Now, let's be harsher on the females (because let's face it, 6 interesting males in the Hobbit is being nice). Let's say that of those almost 4 female characters, only Galadriel had a beginning-middle-end in her story. That's still 25%, it's 4% better that what the men got.
    These numbers are unbelievable by the way, and we should be ashamed that instead of pressing writers to do better, we say, hey, if you can't write women for film, don't use women in your films. Fuck that. I don't see anyone going, hey mate, you had 30 men in your film and 5 of them were ok, if you can't write men well, fuck off, write stories about dolphins instead.
    In this day and age, no, I would not buy a ticket to watch a movie without female characters. If they turn out badly written it's sad, but I wouldn't have even tried watching the movie without them.
    b) Because it needs to be said, Galadriel brought down Dol Guldur in the Return of the King. Like, literally, demolished the place. Also, I loved her scenes in the Hobbit, I wish they had worked more with her character, given her a bit more screen time instead of wasting it on, oh I don't know, storm giants?!
    c) Since we're always going on and on about what the general audience wants, I can't really argue with the execs on making the main dwarves less cartoonish. I can't argue with wanting to focus a bit more on recurring characters like Gandalf and Galadriel (because who cares about dwarf #7). I mean, I didn't buy that ticket to see Legolas again on screen, but most of my friends did and I didn't mind seeing him. Would I have enjoyed it more if his character had depth? Hell yeah. But I can't argue with the logic behind his existence in the film.

  • Emily Crawford
    Emily Crawford 18 days ago

    This is a great explorative essay!!! I can’t help but draw a line between WB’s rushing Jackson and the rushed feeling I get from all the Dc universe movies. WB perhaps has a systemic problem?

  • Post Forums
    Post Forums 18 days ago

    "no reason to like each other." AS IF whomens need reasons to do anything..

  • Daniel Allen
    Daniel Allen 18 days ago

    Aragorn would be 20s-late 30s in five armies

  • retromancer
    retromancer 18 days ago

    Aragorn would be in his mid 20s during BoFA. I think in a deleted TT scene he says he's 87 and just remains young and hot because of master race blood or whatever.

  • John Borden
    John Borden 18 days ago

    When the first The Hobbit movie starts out I thought it was so wonderfully done that I actually shed tears. But as it went on (and on, and on) the elements of the story became so implausible and contrived and sooooo overdone that I began losing interest. It turned into such a profound disappointment by the end, after showing such potential at first, that I never even bothered to go to the second movie. Just got the DVD on sale. And the third movie I have yet to see, and maybe never will.

  • ZombieApocalypse09
    ZombieApocalypse09 19 days ago

    Loved this video series. One thing though is that There are 60 years between the start of the events in the hobbit and the start of the Lord of the Rings. In the Lord of the Rings, Aragorn is 87 years old. So in the events of the hobbit he would be in his 20's. The Dunedain live 3 times longer than normal men.

  • Trisha Minztee
    Trisha Minztee 19 days ago

    I would love to have a fancut of the Hobbit without all that unnecessary studio mandated filling..

  • Kim Nohr
    Kim Nohr 19 days ago

    The ending to this video made me laugh so loud that I think I pissed off my neighbours.

  • duktf4ke
    duktf4ke 19 days ago

    this is brilliant.

  • libraryham
    libraryham 19 days ago

    I really like your review of this trilogy. It's so honest, in depth, without stupid jokes (like Nostalgia Critic would do), and it's of a trilogy I like.
    I agree that it should never have been 3 films, it just didn't seem necessary. I could live with 2 films, but my thought is 1 book, 1 movie. But hey, studio mandates, focus groups, etc. I did always feel even before watching this that certain dwarf characters (namely the younger ones like Kili and Thorin, but emphasizing Thorin is ok, as I remember the book doing so and the films constantly built him up) were more emphasized, and the rest were just there to reach the mandatory 13 dwarves. From what little parts the minor dwarfs got, I really enjoyed what they offered to the film.
    On a similar note, Red Letter Media had the same problem with the Star Wars prequels as the Hobbit trilogy has: reusing and recycling or inserting ideas from their previous trilogy. To some fans like me, this is offputting, I paid to see the Hobbit, not an extension of LOTR (which I really was never a fan of, I think it's the constant tone of dread in those movies, and Frodo's overly dramatic acting, that just makes me turn away) To more casual moviegoers, it just seems like more filler that goes no where, and to critics, really is filler that serves no purpose to the overall story of The Hobbit. Again though, those damn studio mandates and focus groups. It sounds like they need to screen those focus groups better, make sure they get people actually interested in making a good movie rather than seeing 'their' fantasies (or imo, delusions) play out on screen.

  • isambo400
    isambo400 21 day ago

    The Tauriel story was about as good as the rest of the story

  • Mamamew TheRani
    Mamamew TheRani 21 day ago

    Wow... The Hobbit was a tragedy.

  • Matthew Jacobson-Pohutski

    Wasn't the reason they made Dain CGI because Billy Connolly suffers from parkinsons and after reviewing the footage they realized it couldn't be used?

  • nullunit
    nullunit 22 days ago

    Well done on these Hobbit videos. I only saw the first Hobbit film and consequently didn't take the time to see the rest.
    (edit for clarity and to say by comparison, I saw Fellowship in the theater 7 or 8 times. They didn't need to do much to get me again and they still came up short)
    Sad when Rankin-Bass does a better treatment of the Hobbit in 80mins, like 30 years before the Jackson-verse.
    Brother Theodore's Gollum was terrifying to me as a child and as much as much as I respect Andy Serkis' performance it wasn't intimidating in the least.

  • Liam Sweeney
    Liam Sweeney 22 days ago

    So sad. Warner could've still made millions from these films and actually made them great too. Potentially could've made a larger profit if they put more effort into pre-production.

  • Samuel Kristopher
    Samuel Kristopher 22 days ago

    So happy to see my silly country in this video:))) kia kaha

  • Say My Name
    Say My Name 22 days ago

    Thranduil is soooo hot!!! I wish there was more footage of him lol

  • Say My Name
    Say My Name 22 days ago


  • Jack Coleman
    Jack Coleman 22 days ago +1

    Subtly genderbending at least one of the Dwarves would have been such a simple fix if they wanted more feeeeemoids in the movie. My HC is that Bilbo didn't know anything about gender in Dwarvish society so he just assumed all his grim, bearded guests were male and wrote them all down as male in his memoirs.

  • The Honeybee
    The Honeybee 22 days ago +1

    I still feel so much for Evangeline Lily... That she so loved The Hobbit and knew that a random female character created for the films had the potential to be so bad and uncomfortable that she was willing to turn it down, and that she SPECIFICALLY asked that there be no love triangle... And then they fuckin tied her up into a contract and threw her into a love triangle. I would have been completely hurt and furious.

  • madison symons
    madison symons 23 days ago

    If del Toro was able to adapt his idea for the hobbit into some graphic novels or something I would read the shit out of that

  • Johnny Johnson
    Johnny Johnson 23 days ago

    Holy shit. I love you. I love this.

  • Fingaz Mc
    Fingaz Mc 23 days ago +1

    Only just found your channel. You're amazingly Good, gonna watch all your videos now.

  • SojuSeed
    SojuSeed 23 days ago

    Would love to see you dig into Terry Goodkind's work.

  • TJ YYC Gaming
    TJ YYC Gaming 23 days ago

    Misty Mountains Call and the orchestrated version is really nice.

  • Juli Harrison
    Juli Harrison 24 days ago

    I love this so much, the effort in writing the script(?) for the video, interviewing a cast member, editing it together, all the info you put in along with humor makes this video one of my absolute favorites of all time, if that makes sense (also "'what about side by side with a friend.' this is real." is SUCH a mood)

  • Hope
    Hope 24 days ago

    Nah fam aragorn is like 300 years old so he wasn't 10 in hobbit. His line has elf blood